ENO announce new Ring

[Bert Coules]

I saw that Parsifal (Nikolaus Lehnhoff, I believe). The text was incomprehensible, as it usually is at ENO, but I swear ‘Vergeh, unseliges Weib!’was translated as ‘Clear off, you ****ing bitch!’

Hmm... "Clear off" is a tad too contemporary I think, but that apart, that's both effective and dramatically appropriate. But it needs an extra syllable. "You foul ****ing bitch!" perhaps, which also (if I'm interpreting your asterisks correctly) introduces a nice touch of Wagnerian alliteration.

Disappointingly, the published version of Andrew Porter's translation (which is what they actually used) has "Begone, accursed woman!": the last two words especially being one of his less successful attempts at using an equivalent to Wagner's heightened and slightly archaic language - and one which necessitates a bit of mild tweaking to the note-values, not that that matters. Perhaps someone decided in rehearsal that the line needed a bit more oomph.

"Begone, you foul ****ing bitch!" would nicely encompass both the period feel and the blunt directness. Perhaps when they revive it...

[Katzelmacher]

Hmm... "Clear off" is a tad too contemporary I think, but that apart, that's both effective and dramatically appropriate. But it needs an extra syllable. "You foul ****ing bitch!" perhaps.

Disappointingly, the published version of Andrew Porter's translation (which is what they actually used) has "Begone, accursed woman!": the last two words especially being one of his less successful attempts at using an equivalent to Wagner's heightened and slightly archaic language - and one which neccesitates a bit of mild tweaking to the note-values, not that that matters. Perhaps someone decided in rehearsal that the line needed a bit more oomph.

Mind you, "Begone, you foul ****ing bitch!" would nicely encompass both the period feel and the blunt directness. Perhaps when they revive it...

I must say, that was the only bit of the libretto I heard! The rest of it passed me by in a wash of sound, which is the way I prefer it when listening to a ‘translated’ libretto.

There is no satisfactory way to render Wagner’s libretti in ‘modern’ English. Those terrible old Victorian ones are closer in spirit to what Wagner actually wrote (no-one would ever seriously suggest his talent for dramatic poetry was equal to his talent for music).

[Bert Coules]

(no-one would ever seriously suggest his talent for dramatic poetry was equal to his talent for music).

Actually many people - especially among his worshipping contemporaries - have suggested exactly that. The man himself gave semi-private performances of the texts, the Ring especially, and as Deathridge points out in the introiduction to his version, the poems (to use Wagner's own term) were published and known long before the music was. I've seen Wagner's texts performed as straight dramas, with variable success.

Do you know the quote from a German critic, reviewing the original Ring at the Coli? He praised the English version and suggested, not entirely in joke, that Porter should translate it into German so he and his countrymen could enjoy the Ring too.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I must say, that was the only bit of the libretto I heard! The rest of it passed me by in a wash of sound, which is the way I prefer it when listening to a ‘translated’ libretto.

There is no satisfactory way to render Wagner’s libretti in ‘modern’ English. Those terrible old Victorian ones are closer in spirit to what Wagner actually wrote (no-one would ever seriously suggest his talent for dramatic poetry was equal to his talent for music).

I think the Tristan libretto contains some fine passages. I also think there are similar fine passages in all his mature operas but then I am used to alliterative poetry from Anglo Saxon through to Piers Plowman . We may find the German in English archaic that wouldn’t necessarily be the German response . Unfortunately I am not well up enough on 19th German sensibility to speak with huge authority but there are accounts of RW reading the libretti to friends who were left profoundly moved ( a few nodded off) . Interestingly Ernest Newman thought RW probably the greatest actor of the 19th cent that never in fact took to the stage.

Just as an example plucked from Siegfried Act 3 final duet


Lachend erwachst
du Wonnige mir:
Brünnhilde lebt,
Brünnhilde lacht!
Heil dem Tage,
der uns umleuchtet!
Heil der Sonne,
die uns bescheint!
Heil dem Licht,
das ser Nacht enttaucht!
Heil der Welt,
der Brünnhilde lebt!
Sie wacht, sie lebt,
sie lacht mir entgegen.
Prangend strahlt
mir Brünnhildes Stern!
Sie ist mir ewig,
ist mir immer,
Erb' und Eigen,
ein' und all':
leuchtende Liebe,
lachender Tod!

By the standards of opera libretti I think that’s good even excellent ...

[Bert Coules]

Interestingly Ernest Newman thought RW probably the greatest actor of the 19th cent that never in fact took to the stage.

There are contemporary accounts of Wagner directing the first Ring at Bayreuth which strongly suggest that he was a commanding and mesmeric performer.

[gurnemanz]

I think the Tristan libretto contains some fine passages. I also think there are similar fine passages in all his mature operas but then I am used to alliterative poetry from Anglo Saxon through to Piers Plowman . We may find the German in English archaic that wouldn’t necessarily be the German response . Unfortunately I am not well up enough on 19th German sensibility to speak with huge authority but there are accounts of RW reading the libretti to friends who were left profoundly moved ( a few nodded off) . Interestingly Ernest Newman thought RW probably the greatest actor of the 19th cent that never in fact took to the stage.

Just as an example plucked from Siegfried Act 3 final duet


Lachend erwachst
du Wonnige mir:
Brünnhilde lebt,
Brünnhilde lacht!
Heil dem Tage,
der uns umleuchtet!
Heil der Sonne,
die uns bescheint!
Heil dem Licht,
das ser Nacht enttaucht!
Heil der Welt,
der Brünnhilde lebt!
Sie wacht, sie lebt,
sie lacht mir entgegen.
Prangend strahlt
mir Brünnhildes Stern!
Sie ist mir ewig,
ist mir immer,
Erb' und Eigen,
ein' und all':
leuchtende Liebe,
lachender Tod!

By the standards of opera libretti I think that’s good even excellent ...

Thanks for posting that excerpt which saves me the trouble of trying to find something. I don't remember noticing the verb "enttauchen" before or indeed remember coming across it at all over many years concerning myself with the German language. It's not in my large Brockhaus but Google reveals that it was included by the Grimm brothers in their 1859 Deutsches Wörterbuch. It provides a vivid picture of light springing forth.

Having studied both the Nibelungenlied and Gottfried's Tristan in exhaustive detail in the original as part of my German degree, I enjoy Wagner's echoes of those medieval sources.

Wagner likes a pun and these are obviously difficult or impossible to render in translation. Eg. Rhein = Rhine and rein = pure. The Maidens sing:
Rheingold!
Reines Gold! (= pure gold but sounds exactly the same as Rheines Gold - gold of the Rhine).

However, Wagner himself did comment to Cosima that it doesn't matter if people can't understand his verses, since they will understand the dramatic action. The leitmotivs also contribute, of course.

[Darkbloom]

I'm sure most of us are familiar with the joke about native German speakers who prefer Wagner in English because at least then they can actually understand it, but it's an uncomfortable fact that RW wanted his text to be strange and somewhat opaque. He was dealing in myth and made the language fit to his conception of a drama outside time. This attempt to domesticate The Ring is totally contrary to his intentions. Of course, diction being what it is these days we'll be lucky to understand more than 20% of the words anyway.

[Petrushka]

Having listened to Wagner for 50 years there are long stretches, particularly in the Ring, that I know by heart and when listening to a performance in English I find myself translating it back to the original!

[kernelbogey]

I'm sure most of us are familiar with the joke about native German speakers who prefer Wagner in English because at least then they can actually understand it, but it's an uncomfortable fact that RW wanted his text to be strange and somewhat opaque. He was dealing in myth and made the language fit to his conception of a drama outside time. This attempt to domesticate The Ring is totally contrary to his intentions. Of course, diction being what it is these days we'll be lucky to understand more than 20% of the words anyway.

It reminds me of the excellent literary device used by Louis de Bernières in (IIRC) Captain Corelli's Mandolin. A British officer in Greece during the last war has no modern Greek, but studied classical Greek at school. His use of that - to the bewilderment of his Greek collocutors - is conveyed in the English text by Middle English.

I imagine that this might be similar for German first-language speakers hearing Wagner's libretto.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It reminds me of the excellent literary device used by Louis de Bernières in (IIRC) Captain Corelli's Mandolin. A British officer in Greece during the last war has no modern Greek, but studied classical Greek at school. His use of that - to the bewilderment of his Greek collocutors - is conveyed in the English text by Middle English.

I imagine that this might be similar for German first-language speakers hearing Wagner's libretto.

One of two university friends who have only learnt Classical Greek told me once that using it in Greece can be well received because the Greeks realise immediately from the archaisms that they’ve read Homer . As they take a huge pride in their past they are flattered and a bit surprised . Not sure how much Greek gets taught these days though.
Although I am not much of a German speaker I have read a lot of Middle English and I would say that Wagner’s language in the Ring is much closer to modern German than Middle English is to Modern English.

[Petrushka]

It reminds me of the excellent literary device used by Louis de Bernières in (IIRC) Captain Corelli's Mandolin. A British officer in Greece during the last war has no modern Greek, but studied classical Greek at school. His use of that - to the bewilderment of his Greek collocutors - is conveyed in the English text by Middle English.

I imagine that this might be similar for German first-language speakers hearing Wagner's libretto.

Many years ago, I had a conversation with a hotel manager in Munich about this. When he asked me if I spoke German I replied that I didn't but knew chunks of Wagner off by heart. He told me that it's a sort of High German which most German speakers wouldn't understand.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Many years ago, I had a conversation with a hotel manager in Munich about this. When he asked me if I spoke German I replied that I didn't but knew chunks of Wagner off by heart. He told me that it's a sort of High German which most German speakers wouldn't understand.

I thought High German was the accepted national German and that it was Low German that was the problem .Middle High German is the medieval language that Wagner draws some of his vocabulary from but I thought he used the odd word rather like a Victorian novelist ( or Hollywood scriptwriter ) using “quoth he , thou liest “ in a Medieval epic ...

[kernelbogey]

Many years ago, I had a conversation with a hotel manager in Munich about this. When he asked me if I spoke German I replied that I didn't but knew chunks of Wagner off by heart. He told me that it's a sort of High German which most German speakers wouldn't understand.

My ex taught Classics, and on her first visit to Italy, with no Italian, addressed a policeman in Rome in Latin - to his great surprise.

[Ein Heldenleben]

My ex taught Classics, and on her first visit to Italy, with no Italian, addressed a policeman in Rome in Latin - to his great surprise.

Nice one . Reminds me of the Italian Vatican Correspondent who got the scoop of Pope Benedict resigning because she had learnt Latin at school and his resignation speech was in the language. Some of the Cardinals couldn’t follow what was happening amazingly .

[Petrushka]

I thought High German was the accepted national German and that it was Low German that was the problem .Middle High German is the medieval language that Wagner draws some of his vocabulary from but I thought he used the odd word rather like a Victorian novelist ( or Hollywood scriptwriter ) using “quoth he , thou liest “ in a Medieval epic ...

I may be mistaken about what he actually said - it was a long time ago!