The Domingo Dilemma

[Master Jacques]

I think the fact Domingo is still acclaimed testifies to two things. First: human generosity, plus gratitude for the spiritual pleasure he's brought audiences down so many years. Second: his immense charisma, which is still amazingly intact on stage (not least due to that audience generosity) and is quite as much a component of "art" as whether an elderly man can sing or act as well as he once could. It has been the same with ageing actors such as Bernhardt, Gielgud, Olivier or Dench, no longer at the height of their powers; and I rather feel that this testifies to the goodness of our humanity. But there we are!

[Conchis]

I think the fact Domingo is still acclaimed testifies to two things. First: human generosity, plus gratitude for the spiritual pleasure he's brought audiences down so many years. Second: his immense charisma, which is still amazingly intact on stage (not least due to that audience generosity) and is quite as much a component of "art" as whether an elderly man can sing or act as well as he once could. It has been the same with ageing actors such as Bernhardt, Gielgud, Olivier or Dench, no longer at the height of their powers; and I rather feel that this testifies to the goodness of our humanity. But there we are!

I would agree, but I think there is often a trade-off when a great creative/interpretative artist ages - youthful freshness may be lost but something else is gained: call it wisdom, call it perspective, it’’s hard to give it a name but the best example of it I’ve ever witnessed was Leonard Cohen during his ‘victory lap’ concerts in the eight years or so before his death.

I wasn’t opera-going during Domingo’s ‘salad days’, so coudln’t feel sentimental about seeing him. Obviously, he had a certain amount of technique that could carry him through a role without causing obvious disappointment but I think ‘expectation adjustment’ would have been in order for anyone who’d only listened to him on records.

Gielgud and (especially) Olivier could still ‘do it’ until shortly before their deaths, though both were long retired from the stage. I think Olivier’s death scene in (the otherwise bland and overrated) Brideshead Revisited counts among his best work. And Dench continues to impress in major film roles.

[Master Jacques]

Gielgud and (especially) Olivier could still ‘do it’ until shortly before their deaths, though both were long retired from the stage. I think Olivier’s death scene in (the otherwise bland and overrated) Brideshead Revisited counts among his best work. And Dench continues to impress in major film roles.

Having seen all three during their late years, on stage (which is what we're talking about - and that is the only sort of acting worth the name!) I'm afraid that exactly the same strictures as apply to Domingo now applied to them. Gielgud relied on an earpiece to be fed all his lines - on one famous occasion as Prospero it dropped off, to distressing effect; Olivier suffered from bad stage fright in some of his late roles and was tentative to say the least. In both cases, youngsters could still see what all the fuss had been about, but it took a generous act of imagination in both cases. "Major film roles" alas are no guide to capability, when a performer's sight is so bad that she can't learn her lines without assistance, or see what her fellow performers are doing. But she is none the less great for all that.

"Sentimentality" sounds like a little bit of a put-down, Conchis: I'd prefer to talk of humble respect for great artistry.

[Conchis]

Having seen all three during their late years, on stage (which is what we're talking about - and that is the only sort of acting worth the name!) I'm afraid that exactly the same strictures as apply to Domingo now applied to them. Gielgud relied on an earpiece to be fed all his lines - on one famous occasion as Prospero it dropped off, to distressing effect; Olivier suffered from bad stage fright in some of his late roles and was tentative to say the least. In both cases, youngsters could still see what all the fuss had been about, but it took a generous act of imagination in both cases. "Major film roles" alas are no guide to capability, when a performer's sight is so bad that she can't learn her lines without assistance, or see what her fellow performers are doing. But she is none the less great for all that.

"Sentimentality" sounds like a little bit of a put-down, Conchis: I'd prefer to talk of humble respect for great artistry.

Yes, perhaps it was the wrong word. And I would agree with you about the stage being the best place to assess an actor’s capabilities. Film performances can be improved (or, sometimes, ruined) by editing. That doesn’t apply on stage.

I never saw Gielgud or Olivier on stage but Olivier’s late career frailties were well-advertised. I was due to see Ralph Richardson in the NT tour of Inner Voices, but he died before it happened. Richardson certainly had a retentiveness problem in later years, though is somewhat otherworldly stage persona allowed him to disguise it.

[Master Jacques]

I never saw Gielgud or Olivier on stage but Olivier’s late career frailties were well-advertised. I was due to see Ralph Richardson in the NT tour of Inner Voices, but he died before it happened. Richardson certainly had a retentiveness problem in later years, though is somewhat otherworldly stage persona allowed him to disguise it.

Quite so! Certainly Richardson's star never dimmed in the way of his great contemporaries. Mind you, seeing him and Gielgud together in Pinter's No Man's Land (1975) there wasn't a hair's breadth between them - both were utterly spellbinding. Them were the days...

[Richard Tarleton]

I was due to see Ralph Richardson in the NT tour of Inner Voices, but he died before it happened. Richardson certainly had a retentiveness problem in later years, though is somewhat otherworldly stage persona allowed him to disguise it.

I saw him in Shaw's You Never Can Tell in London in the late 60s - an all-star cast (Judy Campbell, Moray Watson, Celia Bannerman ) - Richardson was Walter, the wise waiter, his comic timing and "business" with plates absolutely perfect and hilarious.

[Master Jacques]

I saw him in Shaw's You Never Can Tell in London in the late 60s - an all-star cast (Judy Campbell, Moray Watson, Celia Bannerman ) - Richardson was Walter, the wise waiter, his comic timing and "business" with plates absolutely perfect and hilarious.

You lucky chap! If only we had time travel for stage actors, like we (almost) do for the classic 1960s performances of singers such as Domingo. Videos never quite work the oracle, though this one of Richardson and Gielgud in the Granada TV production of the Pinter has a certain magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ixWBUqSNU

[Darkbloom]

I saw him in the (famous and televised) Proms Walkure of 2005. No prompter in evidence, but I can distinctly remember feeling he’d lost his way during ‘Erin Schwert verheiss mir der Vater....’ but managed to correct himself before it became too noticeable.
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I wouldn't be too critical of Domingo on that occasion, I've seen so many traffic accidents in Wagner at the RAH that it's almost routine. I only saw him once, as Hermann in Queen of Spades. I'm glad I did because recordings don't do him justice, but even back then people were complaining that he wasn't the singer he used to be. Heard live he had a very full, dark sound, whereas CDs often made him sound mannered and lightweight.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

PS: If this thread is pulled, can I be told why?

It was removed last time because it strongly implied that PD was guilty as charged, whereas he is innocent until proved guilty. Discussing this on a forum leads to assumptions that may have an element of truth, but may be quite untrue. There are many victims of sexual predators, but there are also those who have been wrongly accused, sometimes ruining careers. Most of us here have absolutely no idea of what PD has or hasn't done, so we rely on tittle-tattle. Not a good basis for a discussion.

[Bryn]

It was removed last time because it strongly implied that PD was guilty as charged, whereas he is innocent until proved guilty. Discussing this on a forum leads to assumptions that may have an element of truth, but may be quite untrue. There are many victims of sexual predators, but there are also those who have been wrongly accused, sometimes ruining careers. Most of us here have absolutely no idea of what PD has or hasn't done, so we rely on tittle-tattle. Not a good basis for a discussion.

Quite so.

[Conchis]

It was removed last time because it strongly implied that PD was guilty as charged, whereas he is innocent until proved guilty. Discussing this on a forum leads to assumptions that may have an element of truth, but may be quite untrue. There are many victims of sexual predators, but there are also those who have been wrongly accused, sometimes ruining careers. Most of us here have absolutely no idea of what PD has or hasn't done, so we rely on tittle-tattle. Not a good basis for a discussion.

Have you read his statement? It reads (to many who have read it) like a tacit admission of guilt as well as an apology.

[Richard Tarleton]

Have you read his statement? It reads (to many who have read it) like a tacit admission of guilt as well as an apology.

This is surmise - it may or may not be the case.

I'm just wondering what more there is to be said on this thread. There are two strands, as has been observed - failing powers, and the allegations - views have been expressed, we're at the limits of what can be said, is there really anything more to say? Is there a chance we could just leave it here?

[Conchis]

This is surmise - it may or may not be the case.

I'm just wondering what more there is to be said on this thread. There are two strands, as has been observed - failing powers, and the allegations - views have been expressed, we're at the limits of what can be said, is there really anything more to say? Is there a chance we could just leave it here?

Why?

The debate about failing powers is valid and so is the one about allegations. The discussion has been reasonable and civil. What’s the problem?

Most threads die a natural death. They don’t need to be ‘put to sleep’ by a higher power.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If I can put for the case for the defence on the ‘failing powers ‘ allegations I thought he was absolutely tremendous in the recent ROH live Traviata - commanding the stage and seizing the performance by the scruff of the neck and pushing the other singers to greater heights. On the other allegations I am in the innocent until etc category ... However this will mark the end of his career.
I think there are quite a lot issues that can be explored around sexual exploitation in the Arts . Most of them arise from the very unequal power balances , the huge power of big stars and hiring directors , the absence of HR structures until recently , the unstable freelance nature of the market and the fact that the potential rewards of success are so great . All one can say is that bit by by the great cultural institutions appear to addressing this and putting in more protection for those at the bottom end of the pyramid and that’s a good thing.

[Bryn]

Have you read his statement? It reads (to many who have read it) like a tacit admission of guilt as well as an apology.

Have you read it? ". . . I strongly dispute recent allegations made about me . . . " seems pretty unequivocal, to me, and a good many of his female operatic partners have sprung to his defence.