ROH: Ring 2018

[Conchis]

Keraulophone asked a pertinent question about eating, and some of us provided what we hoped would be helpful answers, that's how.

Ok then, back to the show: I strongly disagree with you that the production is a dud. It's by no means perfect, but I doubt I'll ever see a Ring Cycle that is (although I rather wish I'd seen Kasper Holten's Copenhagen Ring in the theatre - it comes over as a very intelligent and involving production on video), but it has a lot going for it. And Warner has changed it over the years - Rheingold seemed significantly different when I saw the General Rehearsal of it last Saturday. I'm greatly looking forward to seeing Cycle 3 next month.

I agree, however, that it has suffered in the past from a shortage of reliable Siegfrieds. I wouldn't go so far as to describe Treleaven as 'truly dreadful' - it wasn't the most refined singing I've ever heard, and his acting was at times embarrassing to behold, but he got through it. I've heard (and seen) much worse (JFW). I agree, however, that Vinke was better, and hope he'll produce the goods again this time round.

The problem with Warner's Ring, as with most productions of it, is that he runs out of ideas by the end of Walkure. Not that I think his ideas for the first two are interesting or coherent. The bed on which Brunnhilde has to lie down looks like an incredibly cheap camp(bed) affair of the kind a cash-strapped student would sleep on; by the time of Siegfried, it's degenerated into a single divan mattress. Thousands upon thousands of pounds have been spent on this Ring - so why does it look so cheap?

I don't think the Ring is a castable work at the moment -if you've got to put up with a provincial house tenor from Eastern Europe or Poughkeepsie or a baritone with a bit on top for the final two operas, you aren't really getting the full effect. While Vinke was OK, he wasn't exactly ideal, either. No: I think Siegfried and Gotterdammerung need to be passed over until singers emerge (as they sometimes do every couple of generations) who can sing them.

Tannhauser has the same problem, only more so. What the hell is the point of mounting an opera if you can't find someone who can adequately sing the principal role?

[Conchis]

Oh - and I would strenuously disagrees with the idea that the current cast is 'stronger' than the ones the ROH fielded in 2007 and in 2012, which were headed by John Tomlinson and Bryn Terfel respectively and featured Lisa Gasteen (much missed) and then Susan Bullock as Brunnhilde. Nina Stemme is the star attraction of the current one but otherwise I think the previous casts were better.

[Darkbloom]

I was surprised Terfel wasn't in this Ring. Lundgren has sung the part at Bayreuth (not necessary a good sign these days) and he struck me as in over his head. He'd probably make a decent Alberich but doesn't have the right sound for Wotan. Having heard Terfel bellow and yell his way through Falstaff on R3 the other day, he wouldn't be my first choice either, but better than Lundgren.

Sorry to go off topic...

[Conchis]

I was surprised Terfel wasn't in this Ring. Lundgren has sung the part at Bayreuth (not necessary a good sign these days) and he struck me as in over his head. He'd probably make a decent Alberich but doesn't have the right sound for Wotan. Having heard Terfel bellow and yell his way through Falstaff on R3 the other day, he wouldn't be my first choice either, but better than Lundgren.

Sorry to go off topic...

Terfel was famously supposed to debut as Wotan in 2007 but then a domestic accident derailed his appearance and Tomlinson took over. I think now that was an early sign that this Ring was going to be jinxed from the beginning. Tomlinson, although he commands a lot of (deserved) respect and affection, was past his best by that point. When Terfel DID sing the complete cycle in 2012, it was somewhat bathetic. He was good but he was....well, Terfel rather than Wotan, I thought.

[Darkbloom]

Terfel was famously supposed to debut as Wotan in 2007 but then a domestic accident derailed his appearance and Tomlinson took over. I think now that was an early sign that this Ring was going to be jinxed from the beginning. Tomlinson, although he commands a lot of (deserved) respect and affection, was past his best by that point. When Terfel DID sing the complete cycle in 2012, it was somewhat bathetic. He was good but he was....well, Terfel rather than Wotan, I thought.

At his considerable best Tomlinson was awesome. That's an overused word but apt to describe him in his pomp. I remember reading reports at the time, when he replaced Terfel, of how important he was to the rest of the cast, reassuring them and giving them the benefit of his experience. It sounded like Terfel's withdrawal nearly scuppered the whole thing. But, yes, he was past his prime, unfortunately.

I know what you mean about Terfel. He never quite seems inside the parts he sings. He had enormous natural talent but a rather poor technique, to my ears, and the older he gets the more obvious it appears. I'm convinced he actually hates singing, which is why he cancels so often.

[Conchis]

At his considerable best Tomlinson was awesome. That's an overused word but apt to describe him in his pomp. I remember reading reports at the time, when he replaced Terfel, of how important he was to the rest of the cast, reassuring them and giving them the benefit of his experience. It sounded like Terfel's withdrawal nearly scuppered the whole thing. But, yes, he was past his prime, unfortunately.



I know what you mean about Terfel. He never quite seems inside the parts he sings. He had enormous natural talent but a rather poor technique, to my ears, and the older he gets the more obvious it appears. I'm convinced he actually hates singing, which is why he cancels so often.

I think Terfel's problem is, he was given the keys to the kingdom far too early and he didn't quite know how to deal with the massive success that he had. Like so many people in his position (Kaufman is currently heading down the same barren route), he was faced with a choice between the 'high art' of the opera house and the big bucks of popular entertainment. Like most people who have been in that spot, he tried to do both without doing either well.

There was a rather preposterous Omnibus-type doc about him a few years back, where some critics were making truly ridiculous claims for him. 'He's far, far better than Hans Hotter', said one talking head. Well, maybe he could have been but I don't think his heart was ever in it. Trouble is, I don't think it's in 'popera'either.

[underthecountertenor]

I know what you mean about Terfel....I'm convinced he actually hates singing, which is why he cancels so often.

Well, really. I suppose that the spiral of preening, self-satisfied armchair criticism was bound to lead to this bit of Norman Lebrecht-style auto-parody eventually.

We were right the first time: better to stick to chat about Côte, Prêt and Caffè Nero, and leave the real business to the professionals.

[Nevilevelis]

Well, really. I suppose that the spiral of preening, self-satisfied armchair criticism was bound to lead to this bit of Norman Lebrecht-style auto-parody eventually.

We were right the first time: better to stick to chat about Côte, Prêt and Caffè Nero, and leave the real business to the professionals.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Conchis]

]Well, really. I suppose that the spiral of preening, self-satisfied armchair criticism was bound to lead to this bit of Norman Lebrecht-style auto-parody eventually. [/B]

We were right the first time: better to stick to chat about Côte, Prêt and Caffè Nero, and leave the real business to the professionals.

I've no idea whether he hates singing or not, but aren't his frequent cancellations documented fact?

[underthecountertenor]

I've no idea whether he hates singing or not, but aren't his frequent cancellations documented fact?

If you don’t get the point that his cancellations (if you want to characterise them as ‘frequent’ that’s a matter for you) do not justify a ‘conviction’ that he ‘hates singing’, then I really give up. Mind you, I gave up quite a bit earlier, at the ‘you’d think they could have afforded a nicer bed’ stage of vacuousness.

[Conchis]

If you don’t get the point that his cancellations (if you want to characterise them as ‘frequent’ that’s a matter for you) do not justify a ‘conviction’ that he ‘hates singing’, then I really give up. Mind you, I gave up quite a bit earlier, at the ‘you’d think they could have afforded a nicer bed’ stage of vacuousness.

What's 'vacuous' about it? The bed is emblematic of the whole production in that it a) looks like -and is - a failed metaphor and b) sticks in the mind as a paradoxical example of cheapness in an expensive venture . I don't see what it's meant to represent in Warner's grand game and, I'd hazard a guess, nor does anyone else.

I realise you're one of those people who's 'only bothered about the voices' but the Ring has always been about a lot more than just 'voices' and even a risen from the dead Flagstad and Melchior couldn't save this shambling farrago.

[Darkbloom]

Well, really. I suppose that the spiral of preening, self-satisfied armchair criticism was bound to lead to this bit of Norman Lebrecht-style auto-parody eventually.

You're welcome. Of course, I don't base my opinion solely on his frequent cancellations. Argerich does it too, and so does Domingo. But Terfel's approach must really tax his voice and he's only been able to get away with it so long because of his enormous natural talent. I remember his Sachs at the Proms where he wasn't even bothering to sing the notes by the end; his voice had clearly gone. But if you listen to the Terfel Fan Club, he's a god who never puts a foot wrong. You only have to listen to him next to Keenlyside in the recent Falstaff to hear the difference between a well-trained voice and one that's faking it and getting by on reputation.

Sorry if having an opinion gives you a fit of the vapours but you do rather illustrate my point. I can't think of another singer who gets such routine (in my view, lazy) praise. If you want to disagree, go ahead, the more the merrier, but try and actually have a point. I'd be interested to hear a different view but it doesn't sound like you're up to the job.

I wasn't aware that having an armchair was a bad thing these days. It sounds like you listen to Terfel while standing on your head - that must account for your peculiar outburst, which I attribute to a rush of blood.

[Conchis]

On the positive side (and I suppose there has to be SOME positive side), I'm looking forward to Emily Magee's Sieglinde, which seems to have attracted some rather sniffy reviews. I liked her performances in Die Frau...and the last couple of Gotterdammerungs.

[Alison]

If so, a bit like Morrison's reputation then.

[underthecountertenor]

You're welcome. Of course, I don't base my opinion solely on his frequent cancellations. Argerich does it too, and so does Domingo. But Terfel's approach must really tax his voice and he's only been able to get away with it so long because of his enormous natural talent. I remember his Sachs at the Proms where he wasn't even bothering to sing the notes by the end; his voice had clearly gone. But if you listen to the Terfel Fan Club, he's a god who never puts a foot wrong. You only have to listen to him next to Keenlyside in the recent Falstaff to hear the difference between a well-trained voice and one that's faking it and getting by on reputation.

Sorry if having an opinion gives you a fit of the vapours but you do rather illustrate my point. I can't think of another singer who gets such routine (in my view, lazy) praise. If you want to disagree, go ahead, the more the merrier, but try and actually have a point. I'd be interested to hear a different view but it doesn't sound like you're up to the job.

I wasn't aware that having an armchair was a bad thing these days. It sounds like you listen to Terfel while standing on your head - that must account for your peculiar outburst, which I attribute to a rush of blood.

Amazing. You’ve managed to both miss my point and repeat the trick of leaping to a conclusion (this time about me) which is nothing more than wild speculation. Everyone is welcome to their view of Terfel’s singing. I find a number of his mannerisms irritating, as it happens. But to suggest that he ‘hates singing’ is beyond the pale, and to suggest that I have ‘a fit of the vapours’ and so on for calling you out on it is all of a piece.