ROH: Ring 2018

[underthecountertenor]

I realise you're one of those people who's 'only bothered about the voices' .

Wow. Another person who, without having met me, seems to know more about me than I do about myself. What’s your hourly rate for psychoanalysis sessions?

[Conchis]

Wow. Another person who, without having met me, seems to know more about me than I do about myself. What’s your hourly rate for psychoanalysis sessions?

You do have form in this area, so I speak with some authority.

And you are also the instigator of the rather ugly turn this discussion has taken by your bilious reaction to another forum-member's criticism of a singer.

If you're related to Mr. Terfel, or if you are (your nom de forum notwithstanding) Mr. Terfel himself, that would be understandable. But even so, you ought to know how to don a tin hat...

I think under the counter might be the best place for you.....

[gradus]

If I could return briefly to the subject of where to eat in the interval, it used to be possible (40 min interval) to nip up to the fish and chip shop in Endell Street and enjoy a cod and chips or as the fancy takes you before the next Act. Their website says they close at 10.30 so after the perf might be possible for Rheingold.

[Richard Tarleton]

If I could return briefly to the subject of where to eat in the interval, it used to be possible (40 min interval) to nip up to the fish and chip shop in Endell Street and enjoy a cod and chips or as the fancy takes you before the next Act. Their website says they close at 10.30 so after the perf might be possible for Rheingold.

as a veteran of the amphitheatre pre and post rebuilding, I've always taken a picnic with miniature wine bottles. Post rebuilding, my opera buddy and I have always headed through the throng in the bar to the balcony overlooking the piazza, generally somewhere to sit there even if it's raining. Unless they've got stricter on picnics? We ate in the restaurant on the Amphitheatre level once (during Siegfried, 2007) with friends - starter and main in the first interval, dessert in the second - expensive but very good and timed with military precision.

My main memory of John Treleaven was him breaking his sword at the end of Act 2 of Siegfried and calling "The sword's broken, the sword's broken" to the stage hands as he ran off, holding the two parts together. Technically, Wotan won and Act 3 should never have happened. Treleaven (2007) seriously underpowered for the part (I speak as one who saw the Haitink/Jones Ring with S Jerusalem twice, but few casts in this era could live up to that). I also saw the revival in 2012.

[Conchis]

as a veteran of the amphitheatre pre and post rebuilding, I've always taken a picnic with miniature wine bottles. Post rebuilding, my opera buddy and I have always headed through the throng in the bar to the balcony overlooking the piazza, generally somewhere to sit there even if it's raining. Unless they've got stricter on picnics? We ate in the restaurant on the Amphitheatre level once (during Siegfried, 2007) with friends - starter and main in the first interval, dessert in the second - expensive but very good and timed with military precision.

My main memory of John Treleaven was him breaking his sword at the end of Act 2 of Siegfried and calling "The sword's broken, the sword's broken" to the stage hands as he ran off, holding the two parts together. Technically, Wotan won and Act 3 should never have happened. Treleaven (2007) seriously underpowered for the part (I speak as one who saw the Haitink/Jones Ring with S Jerusalem twice, but few casts in this era could live up to that). I also saw the revival in 2012.

I saw Treleaven sing Tristan in Hamburg a couple of years before the ROH Siegfried. At that time, he struck me as barely acceptable and I rolled my eyes when I saw him pencilled in for Covent Garden. He's a Bayreuth veteran but, as others have said, that means not a lot these days. To be brutally frank, there is a whole raft of singers who might be called 'Make Do' Tenors - Robert Dean Smith, Treleaven, Stig Andersen - who basically have careers because opera houses need to programme these operas and they are all that is available. Does anyone remember Wolfgang Muller-Lorenz who sang Tristan for Haitnk back in 2002? I've never seen a singer more cruelly exposed and I had serious worries that he wouldn't be able to do Act 3 at all (he couldn't, but he just about got through it in one piece). I've often wondered how these singers must feel, rubbing shoulders with international basses and sopranos, knowing they are basically there as a last (only) resort......

[underthecountertenor]

You do have form in this area, so I speak with some authority.

And you are also the instigator of the rather ugly turn this discussion has taken by your bilious reaction to another forum-member's criticism of a singer.

If you're related to Mr. Terfel, or if you are (your nom de forum notwithstanding) Mr. Terfel himself, that would be understandable. But even so, you ought to know how to don a tin hat...

I think under the counter might be the best place for you.....

We can throw allegations of ‘form’ around until the Valkyrie come home.

But the discussion turned ugly, as far as I’m concerned, when the forum-member put out his or her ‘conviction’, based on no evidence, that a particular professional opera singer ‘actually hates singing’. That is simply an outrageous thing to say, and I’m amazed that you find it defensible,whatever your views on the singer in question (and I’ve made it clear that I hold no brief for him). Would you be happy for a complete stranger to bandy about a view that you hated your job (whether you actually do or not)?

Full disclosure, since you insinuate: I have met Terfel once, when we were both in the same bar after a Walküre during the last run. We spoke for perhaps 20 seconds, during which he gave every impression of enjoying his job and not ‘actually hating singing’. But I wouldn’t need to have had that conversation to take the view that that sort of suggestion is simply unacceptable.

I think under the conch may be the best place for you, if we’re going down that route.

Meanwhile...gradus is right. That fish and chip shop in Endell Street is wonderful.

[Conchis]

We can throw allegations of ‘form’ around until the Valkyrie come home.

But the discussion turned ugly, as far as I’m concerned, when the forum-member put out his or her ‘conviction’, based on no evidence, that a particular professional opera singer ‘actually hates singing’. That is simply an outrageous thing to say, and I’m amazed that you find it defensible,whatever your views on the singer in question (and I’ve made it clear that I hold no brief for him). Would you be happy for a complete stranger to bandy about a view that you hated your job (whether you actually do or not)?

Full disclosure, since you insinuate: I have met Terfel once, when we were both in the same bar after a Walküre during the last run. We spoke for perhaps 20 seconds, during which he gave every impression of enjoying his job and not ‘actually hating singing’. But I wouldn’t need to have had that conversation to take the view that that sort of suggestion is simply unacceptable.

I think under the conch may be the best place for you, if we’re going down that route.

Meanwhile...gradus is right. That fish and chip shop in Endell Street is wonderful.

Not my place to argue the point, but I think the one being made was that he gave the impression he hated singing.

Opera enthusiasts sometimes have a pious attitude toward singers, like they are 'higher beings' who live life on a rarefied plane. This attitude is equivalent to teenagers who put posters of their favourite pop stars on their walls. It was much in evidence in some of the sad fanboys and fangirls featured in the Jonas Kaufman promotional film masquerading as a documentary that was shown last Christmas. It's corrosive, because this kind of adulation leads the singers to make decisions that are detrimental in the long-term. I hear Kaufman is planning to sing Tannhauser, a role for which is voice is not suited. If he goes ahead with it, it will almost certainly end his career as an opera singer, though lucrative one-nigh stands with a pick-up orchestra will still be within his grasp.

[Constantbee]

Spot on x 2.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Back on thread last night's Siegfried was magnificent . Vinke indefatigable in the title role - an absolutely thrilling sword -forging scene - real ringing tones. And still giving his all by the End of the Act 3 duet. Not a weak link in the cast - one of the great nights at Covent Garden.

[Ein Heldenleben]

On the Bryn Terfel question. I saw him in Die Walkure in an earlier ROH production. I just don't think Wotan suits his voice - he seemed uneasy in the role. Some professional singers I've spoken to wondered whether he has in his career been pressured into roles that are perhaps too big for the voice . One thought was that he perhaps hadn't developed the support and technique in the voice early on that might avoid the problems he is currently experiencing .Because of his phenomenal natural talent these may have been masked. I wonder if he had stuck to Leider and Mozart and avoided the heavier Wagner roles his voice might have lasted better . Finally it would simply not be possible for an artist of his stature to produce such a magnificent body of work if he 'hates singing' . He might hate the world of singing but that is a different matter...

[Conchis]

On the Bryn Terfel question. I saw him in Die Walkure in an earlier ROH production. I just don't think Wotan suits his voice - he seemed uneasy in the role. Some professional singers I've spoken to wondered whether he has in his career been pressured into roles that are perhaps too big for the voice . One thought was that he perhaps hadn't developed the support and technique in the voice early on that might avoid the problems he is currently experiencing .Because of his phenomenal natural talent these may have been masked. I wonder if he had stuck to Leider and Mozart and avoided the heavier Wagner roles his voice might have lasted better . Finally it would simply not be possible for an artist of his stature to produce such a magnificent body of work if he 'hates singing' . He might hate the world of singing but that is a different matter...

I first heard him sing Wotan at the famous 2005 Prom. At the time, I remember thinking it was a 'Wotan as Crooner' kind of performance; then at the second interval I got talking to a fellow Prommer, who had been a long-time member of the Covent Garden Chorus (and was also Welsh!). Her view was that Terfel was hopelessly over-parted and she laughed at the idea that he was 'better than Hans Hotter' (whom she'd shared a stage with many times, though obviously not in the Ring).

In the documentary I alluded to earlier, I also sensed that he was being 'motioned' toward Wagner without any great willingness on his own part. To go from singing Figaro, Leporello, etc to the Wagnerian heavies is a bit like a week-end climber suddenly attempting an ascent of K2. This makes me wonder: does he actually still sing Wagner? His recent schedule has been full of 'party roles' in Puccini and Sondheim.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Lundgren last night definitely had the bass heft needed for the role of Wotan .He has a very noble voice - trouble is Wotan isn't a very noble character.

[Conchis]

Lundgren last night definitely had the bass heft needed for the role of Wotan .He has a very noble voice - trouble is Wotan isn't a very noble character.

No, he isn't; people forget about his self-serving character because of the 'nobility' of the music Wagner gives him.

Hans Hotter portrayed a very 'noble' Wotan but couldn't quite get to grips with the character's nasty side - or so I've always felt. I think he tended to avoid the Rheingold Wotan, where the character is at its worst, for that reason.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I should add that in terms of acting Lundgren bought out the nasty side admirably....

[Ein Heldenleben]

In fact grading last night on the moral ambiguity noble to nasty axis ( and with some sharply characterised performances ) I would go Fafner - Alberich - Wotan - Mime. Mind you the unwarranted spearing of Erda by Wotan in Act 3 unfairly weighed the scales ....