Po3 Fri: Rheingold from Leeds

[Mandryka]

Let's not forget that Opera North was an off-shoot of English National Opera. The number of operas sung in their original languages has increased progressively since then.

But there are many of us who are more than happy for operas to be sung in the tongue of the audience, rather than the original, intended for a very different bunch of people.

A lot of people seem to think that 'English' is best for a first viewing, but I can't agree. To my mind, translating a libretto into another language fundamentally alters its character - which can often (though not always) have a knock-on effect on the music. I'm not the first person to have noted that Verdi in English sounds suspiciously like Gilbert and Sulivan.....or that the Ring, in Andrew Porter's esteemed though (to me) tin-eared translation turns Wotan into an English prep school master fretting over the loss of a rugby trophy.

Thanks for the correction, above....I'll admit, I was very disappointed to read that Pique Dame is to be given in English. Some years ago, WNO managed to pull of the feat of staging it in Russian.....I'd hopedd that this would 'raise the bar' for provincial opera companies staging Russian operas in the UK.

Hst, on a recent visit to St. Petersburg, I noticed that the Kirov tends to perform all works (no matter where they're from)in Russian - apart from Ariadne Auf Naxos, where (for some reason) the Prologue only was sung in German.

[amateur51]

A lot of people seem to think that 'English' is best for a first viewing, but I can't agree. To my mind, translating a libretto into another language fundamentally alters its character - which can often (though not always) have a knock-on effect on the music. I'm not the first person to have noted that Verdi in English sounds suspiciously like Gilbert and Sulivan.....or that the Ring, in Andrew Porter's esteemed though (to me) tin-eared translation turns Wotan into an English prep school master fretting over the loss of a rugby trophy.

Theoretically, I'm sure that you're right. However an awful lot of 'international' opera is sung by singers in languages other than their native tongue, and sometimes this leads to mispronunciation.

In addition, the priority for many opera singers is volume over clarity which is why so many Brunnhilde's are screaming about SEIGfried instead of SIEGfried, for example.

I'm not sure what the good people of Welsh National Opera would say about being referred to as 'provincial'

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not the first person to have noted that Verdi in English sounds suspiciously like Gilbert and Sullivan.....or that the Ring, in Andrew Porter's esteemed though (to me) tin-eared translation turns Wotan into an English prep school master fretting over the loss of a rugby trophy.

My German-speaking mother actually said something similar, except that she was comparing the original Wagner's German with the English G & S. So if you want to disguise the text into something worthier than it is, then leave it in the original language, but if you want to understand it...

Just for the record, I don't speak German myself, so I can't give you first hand experience.

[Mandryka]

Theoretically, I'm sure that you're right. However an awful lot of 'international' opera is sung by singers in languages other than their native tongue, and sometimes this leads to mispronunciation.

In addition, the priority for many opera singers is volume over clarity which is why so many Brunnhilde's are screaming about SEIGfried instead of SIEGfried, for example.

I'm not sure what the good people of Welsh National Opera would say about being referred to as 'provincial'

When I use the term 'provincial', I don't mean it disparagingly: in the case of WNO, the application is literal, as the company, though based in the Welsh capital, servesthe English provinces (Liverpool, Birmingham, Oxford and/or Manchester are its usual ports of call).

Tbh, I'm happy to take mispronunciation of a language I'm not familiar with to perfect enunciation in my own language, where the clunky nature of the translation is revealed in all its un-glory.

I've heard about an English tenor called John Brecknock, who was much praised for the clarity of his diction. A friend of mine heard him at ENO singing Traviata and had to leave at the interval - not because JB's singing was bad, but because it revealed the emptiness of the translated libretto.

[vinteuil]

The only reason I have to be thankful that my German and Italian is limited - is that I can thoroughly enjoy all the glorious operas written in those languages. When you really know a language, the banality of opera libretti becomes painful. I much prefer being able more-or-less to know what's going on, and enjoy the music, - rather than being halted in exasperation at the awfulness of the texts. The better my Italian and German have become, the more ridiculous have also become the operas of Mozart, Verdi, Puccini, Wagner... I'm sure I wd appreciate Britten - and perhaps particularly Tippett - much more if they had written in a language which I was only half aware of...

[Mandryka]

The only reason I have to be thankful that my German and Italian is limited - is that I can thoroughly enjoy all the glorious operas written in those languages. When you really know a language, the banality of opera libretti becomes painful. I much prefer being able more-or-less to know what's going on, and enjoy the music, - rather than being halted in exasperation at the awfulness of the texts. The better my Italian and German have become, the more ridiculous have also become the operas of Mozart, Verdi, Puccini, Wagner... I'm sure I wd appreciate Britten - and perhaps particularly Tippett - much more if they had written in a language which I was only half aware of...

Britten could hardly have worked with better librettists, but I think parts of Grimes and Budd still sound clunky.

Ime, Berg and Janacek work OK in English; can't think of any others, though.

[David]

I am rather late to this thread - Pologoes.

Two points: I was at the San Francisco opera for their Ring Cyle (celebrating a significant birthday, a maturity recognised by the state) and saw Rheingold at the Sage. I thought that the orchestral playing was on a par and the singing better overall in Newcastle.

Secondly, I know the Sage is in the 'provinces', but it irks me to find so little mention of the Northern Sinfonia in the BBC music magazine and elsewhere. Their standard is certainly very high, as good as all the visiting orchestras I have heard and very much better than some.

[Mandryka]

I am rather late to this thread - Pologoes.

Two points: I was at the San Francisco opera for their Ring Cyle (celebrating a significant birthday, a maturity recognised by the state) and saw Rheingold at the Sage. I thought that the orchestral playing was on a par and the singing better overall in Newcastle.

Secondly, I know the Sage is in the 'provinces', but it irks me to find so little mention of the Northern Sinfonia in the BBC music magazine and elsewhere. Their standard is certainly very high, as good as all the visiting orchestras I have heard and very much better than some.

The N.S. are excellent. I don't buy the BBC MM but it wouldn't surprise me if it's their very name which is preventing them from getting wider coverage. It's a sad fact, but for many southerners, 'Northern' equates with second-rate and vaguely comical. (Not my opinion, need I add, as I come from Liverpool and live in Derbyshire).

[LeMartinPecheur]

Yes, we're coming to see the St Endellion Walküre in Aug. Can't get to either of the church performances (a pity: although a squash, should be a wonderful atmosphere in there), so we're seeing in in Truro's Hall for Cornwall. Never been there - what's it like?

ostuni: H4C is a decent enough theatre/ concert hall. It does its fair share of opera though I've not heard anything bigger than Janacek/ Tchaik there. But I'm not saying it's too small for Walkure: that's to be decided and I wish I could be there myself. Sight lines are good (if that matters with an at best semi-staged performance) unless you're well over in the side blocks, and even the back rows are still pretty close to the action. Acoustic is clear, not particularly reverberant but not I think over-dry either. In short, I wouldn't worry too much.

One other thought: if H4C gets anywhere near full I would think that more people will get to see it that night than at both the St Endellion church performances combined!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't know why people get upset by the phrase "in the provinces". There may be an assumtion in some quarters that you will only find the best in London, but let them dream on. There's great music making all over Britain. End of story.