ROH - George Benjamin: Lessons in Love and Violence

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Weeeell ... Musically, I certainly preferred it to Dean's Hamlet, and the camera work was very well done ... and, of course, Barbara Hannigan makes anything worth hearing! I thought the Music sounded like "someone trying to remember Birtwistle's Minotaur having only heard it once some time ago" and, as with so many recent British operas, the whole thing sounded like someone had put a stage play to Music, rather than written an opera. (Quite a "traditiona/conventionall" sort of stage play, too - linear narrative, one-thing-at-a-time staging etc.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh - and I did feel sorry for Ocean Doodah-Wotsit (playing the daughter) having to wander around the stage with a look of distressed distaste throughout the whole 90 minutes.

[Darkbloom]

Weeeell ... Musically, I certainly preferred it to Dean's Hamlet, and the camera work was very well done ... and, of course, Barbara Hannigan makes anything worth hearing! I thought the Music sounded like "someone trying to remember Birtwistle's Minotaur having only heard it once some time ago" and, as with so many recent British operas, the whole thing sounded like someone had put a stage play to Music, rather than written an opera. (Quite a "traditiona/conventionall" sort of stage play, too - linear narrative, one-thing-at-a-time staging etc.)

Given the ratio of hits to misses when it comes to new operas, I suppose it's not much of a shock that this one hasn't been rapturously received. At least so far, but time will tell. Of the new ones I have heard, 'stage play set to music' describes them all. The vocal lines sit on top of the music rather awkwardly and you never feel that mysterious sense of take-off that opera can give you. I saw the Minotaur during its first run, and although I can respect the composer's intentions, several hours of monotonous singing is pretty arduous for the listener.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought The Minotaur a better effort than Birtwistle's Io Passion, but still a sad decline not only from the magnificent Mask of Orpheus (one of the finest works of Music Theatre) but also from the more "conventional" Gawain (and even The Second Mrs Kong). I would, however, wish to hear The Minotaur with a different main singer in the title role: it did seem to me that John Tomlinson was well past his best.

[Bryn]

Given the ratio of hits to misses when it comes to new operas, I suppose it's not much of a shock that this one hasn't been rapturously received. At least so far, but time will tell. Of the new ones I have heard, 'stage play set to music' describes them all. The vocal lines sit on top of the music rather awkwardly and you never feel that mysterious sense of take-off that opera can give you. I saw the Minotaur during its first run, and although I can respect the composer's intentions, several hours of monotonous singing is pretty arduous for the listener.

Are you familiar with the operas of the late Robert Ashley (1930-2014)? Among his many operas, not even Quicksand (which is also a novel), gets even close to the "stage play set to music" model.

[LMcD]

My God. Music on BBC 1...and what an excellent programme it was. Some of the old Arena values there. And I was so amused at the end when the continuity announcer plugged Lessons in Love and Violence on BBC4 this coming Sunday. She said, "You see the BBC does do this sort of thing after all", almost as if she'd been reading The Forum.

There are 16 episodes from the 'Arena' archive on the iPlayer. I'm rubbish at links, so may I suggest you simply google 'Arena episodes on BBC iPlayer' if you're interested.

[Richard Barrett]

Are you familiar with the operas of the late Robert Ashley (1930-2014)? Among his many operas, not even Quicksand (which is also a novel), gets even close to the "stage play set to music" model.

That's another new one for me. I've seen Celestial Excursions and El Aficionado (as well as Perfect Lives on TV) and I've listened to most of the available CDs... I'm not sure that Ashley designating these works as "operas" really does justice to how individual and original they are. I'm inclined to think that "opera" as such, that is to say works native to the resources of an opera house, is an exhausted form. Contemporary works in that general area tend to interest me in proportion to the way they seem to want to break out of its restrictions. I can't imagine that anything by George Benjamin is going to come into that category, but maybe I'm wrong.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can't imagine that anything by George Benjamin is going to come into that category, but maybe I'm wrong.

Not on this occasion, certainly - but GB is a composer who likes to work within traditional/conventional "restrictions"; he's not interested in creating new ways of presentation etc. Nothing (necessarily) wrong with that, of course - but it did seem to me that the Musical invention in this new work was slim - much thinner than his earlier operatic works, with less of an individual "voice" present in the Music.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

(OT - Robert Ashley's Flute Concerto Superior Seven features in this week's Hear & Now. From the description of the work, "concerto" doesn't do justice to the work as a designation any more than "opera" does to those works.)

[underthecountertenor]

Not on this occasion, certainly - but GB is a composer who likes to work within traditional/conventional "restrictions"; he's not interested in creating new ways of presentation etc. Nothing (necessarily) wrong with that, of course - but it did seem to me that the Musical invention in this new work was slim - much thinner than his earlier operatic works, with less of an individual "voice" present in the Music.

Spotted GB (as well as Julian Barnes and Imogen Cooper) at Götterdämmerung last night. Perhaps he'll take inspiration from Wagner and break a few conventions next time.

[Richard Barrett]

GB is a composer who likes to work within traditional/conventional "restrictions"; he's not interested in creating new ways of presentation etc. Nothing (necessarily) wrong with that, of course

I wonder. As I get older I become less patient with artistic conformity, because (pardon me if I've said this too many times before) if contemporary composition has anything at all to offer the world, it's to show what freedom of the imagination can produce, rather than to demonstrate yet another set of unquestioned conventions like those we see adhered to around us in most walks of life every day. As UtCT says, most of the great artists of the past weren't too concerned with conventions.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder. As I get older I become less patient with artistic conformity, because (pardon me if I've said this too many times before) if contemporary composition has anything at all to offer the world, it's to show what freedom of the imagination can produce, rather than to demonstrate yet another set of unquestioned conventions like those we see adhered to around us in most walks of life every day. As UtCT says, most of the great artists of the past weren't too concerned with conventions.

I agree (and I've also banged on about this innumerable times before on the Forum - I don't think it can be said "too many times" ) - but I can understand why some Artists might react more positively to the challenge of producing something new and "valid" whilst working within the limitations of ...

... that sentence got bored with itself ...

I've met GB a couple of times several years ago and found him an amiable and approachable chap. (On the second meeting, I pointed out a maths mistake he made in a comment; he seemed quite amused by this and at the end of the day he wished me luck with my proportions!) He's written stuff that's much more interesting than Love & Violins - but the best was a long time ago.

[Bryn]

It's decades since I met GB but certainly concur regarding his amiability. Would that I found his music more enticing than I do. As with the late Oliver Knussen, I find him rather more to my taste as a conductor.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's decades since I met GB but certainly concur regarding his amiability. Would that I found his music more enticing than I do. As with the late Oliver Knussen, I find him rather more to my taste as a conductor.

- I think the documentary communicated his personality very well.



(But he does rather write the sort of Music that would win the Booker Prize, doesn't he?)

[Bryn]

From towards the end of Act I of Robert Ashley's Quicksand, "there are so many bad operas. If I'm going to hear something I like, I have to write it myself".