James Levine Suspended by The Met

[Dave2002]

Yeah, somehow when my mum and dad told me not to talk to strangers, don't take sweets off people you don't know etc, it landed....... I got it.

I once had an unpleasant experience on my way to school at a railway station. I assume that the person I encountered was some sort of pervert. I won't give details, but I wasn't hurt. I ran away. I didn't report it - who would I have reported it to? I guess I must have been 12-13 at the time, and that was in the 1960s. It could have turned really nasty, but in those days I ran faster than most, including most adults. In terms of violence it was less so than later on when a group of youths slightly older than I was tried to beat me up for no really apparent reason - to me at any rate. I had no idea who they were - I think they were just looking to pick on people, and start a fight.

[Richard Tarleton]

I once had an unpleasant experience on my way to school at a railway station. I assume that the person I encountered was some sort of pervert. I won't give details, but I wasn't hurt. I ran away. I didn't report it - who would I have reported it to? I guess I must have been 12-13 at the time, and that was in the 1960s.

Dave - amazing, I had an identical experience, same age, same decade, railway station (in the cafeteria of a London terminus), on my way to school, instinct kicked in before anything happened and I legged it. As you say - who would you report it to? I got on my train.

[Dave2002]

Richard

Mine was in Liverpool. Looking at ff's learned article I supose I should have run off to the local cop shop, and walked in and said "I wish to report an incident under the Indecency with Children Act 1960" - but I didn't know that, nor would I have expected any action. On the scale of things it was at the lower end - but might have turned worse. I hope your experience wasn't a worse one - legs are useful!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yeah, somehow when my mum and dad told me not to talk to strangers, don't take sweets off people you don't know etc, it landed....... I got it.

Yes - but it's different when 1) the people concerned aren't "strangers", and the abused do know their abusers; and 2) Mum & Dad are not only not around, but are coughing up money to ensure that their kids are being taught precisely by the person abusing them. (And if the abuse has been accumulating over a series of years of "grooming" by someone that the abused has been told by Mum & Dad to "do as they're told" with.)

This article makes for truly horrendous reading - I wouldn't suggest reading it immediately before intending to sleep - as it gives an insight into the scale of the problem.

https://ianpace.wordpress.com/tag/robert-king/

[ahinton]

Yes - but it's different when 1) the people concerned aren't "strangers", and the abused do know their abusers; and 2) Mum & Dad are not only not around, but are coughing up money to ensure that their kids are being taught precisely by the person abusing them. (And if the abuse has been accumulating over a series of years of "grooming" by someone that the abused has been told by Mum & Dad to "do as they're told" with.)

This article makes for truly horrendous reading - I wouldn't suggest reading it immediately before intending to sleep - as it gives an insight into the scale of the problem.

https://ianpace.wordpress.com/tag/robert-king/

Ian has done sterling work on this horrifying subject; how he's found the time and energy to do it in addition to all else that he does I have no idea.

[teamsaint]

Yes - but it's different when 1) the people concerned aren't "strangers", and the abused do know their abusers; and 2) Mum & Dad are not only not around, but are coughing up money to ensure that their kids are being taught precisely by the person abusing them. (And if the abuse has been accumulating over a series of years of "grooming" by someone that the abused has been told by Mum & Dad to "do as they're told" with.)

This article makes for truly horrendous reading - I wouldn't suggest reading it immediately before intending to sleep - as it gives an insight into the scale of the problem.

https://ianpace.wordpress.com/tag/robert-king/

I strongly suspect that the incidence of sophisticated grooming techniques has risen rapidly in the internet world. Just a guess, but I would think that pre internet , a much greater proportion of abuse would have been of a more "!opportunistic" type.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I strongly suspect that the incidence of sophisticated grooming techniques has risen rapidly in the internet world.

As a general rule, of course - but the specific incidents mentioned in the article do not involve computers.

Just a guess, but I would think that pre internet , a much greater proportion of abuse would have been of a more "!opportunistic" type.

Could you give an example of what you mean, ts?

[teamsaint]

As a general rule, of course - but the specific incidents mentioned in the article do not involve computers.


Could you give an example of what you mean, ts?

It was really just in connection with the grooming thing. I'm sure you are right, that sophisticated grooming could easily lead to even greater confusion about what is going on, in the mind of the victim.

My point was really just that offending has surely become more sophisticated and organised by individuals. Pre internet, I would think that there would be more ( though not exclusively of course) offending where opportunity presented itself, rather than targets being actively sought out.. As I say, just an assumption, but In the cases I am aware of , evidence of sophisticated grooming doesn't seem to have been presented . But I haven't looked in depth, and in truth, don't really want to !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It was really just in connection with the grooming thing. I'm sure you are right, that sophisticated grooming could easily lead to even greater confusion about what is going on, in the mind of the victim.

My point was really just that offending has surely become more sophisticated and organised by individuals. Pre internet, I would think that there would be more ( though not exclusively of course) offending where opportunity presented itself, rather than targets being actively sought out.. As I say, just an assumption, but In the cases I am aware of , evidence of sophisticated grooming doesn't seem to have been presented . But I haven't looked in depth, and in truth, don't really want to !

Thanks - I wasn't sure how you meant "opportunistic" in this context; all clear now.

[Richard Barrett]

"The cult of interpretive genius in which a single man can come to be seen as so gifted and important that institutions and systems will protect him for 40 years is connected to a view of sexual abuse that sees perpetrators as uniquely perverted predators rather than as the horribly predictable outcomes of the accumulation of power. In order to make and hear music in healthy ways, and think about sex in healthy ways, we must destroy and replace the insular star system and the dysfunctional and unjust accumulations of power it enables. In the end this is how I have resolved to understand the profound beauty I heard those years in Boston. What I heard was not simply “James Levine, conducting,” but all the brilliant musicians and singers who made those works come to life. They always mattered more anyway. A healthy musical culture would have known that. It would have taught me that alongside, or instead of, the cult of the great-man interpreter. A healthy musical culture would have valued working musicians—and new work and its composers and advocates—more than any individual star conductor paid millions of dollars annually."

https://van-us.atavist.com/silence-breaking

[Dave2002]

Sad. I didn't quite understand the Andris Nelsons comment which someone wrote at the end. The notion that music can be so life affirming and (therefore?) musicians cannot be horrid is clearly untrue.

[richardfinegold]

"The cult of interpretive genius in which a single man can come to be seen as so gifted and important that institutions and systems will protect him for 40 years is connected to a view of sexual abuse that sees perpetrators as uniquely perverted predators rather than as the horribly predictable outcomes of the accumulation of power. In order to make and hear music in healthy ways, and think about sex in healthy ways, we must destroy and replace the insular star system and the dysfunctional and unjust accumulations of power it enables. In the end this is how I have resolved to understand the profound beauty I heard those years in Boston. What I heard was not simply “James Levine, conducting,” but all the brilliant musicians and singers who made those works come to life. They always mattered more anyway. A healthy musical culture would have known that. It would have taught me that alongside, or instead of, the cult of the great-man interpreter. A healthy musical culture would have valued working musicians—and new work and its composers and advocates—more than any individual star conductor paid millions of dollars annually."

https://van-us.atavist.com/silence-breaking

That’s really disturbing, that it was common knowledge at The BSO not to leave your kid alone with him. And the Ross quote dismissing allegations—how can he consider himself a Journalist?

[Belgrove]

Peter Gelb announced during an interval in yesterday's broadcast of Parsifal from the Met that the Music Director Designate, Yannick Nezet-Seguin, would assume his role as Music -Director a year earlier, commencing next season. Mr Gelb made no mention of James Levine, neither did his interviewer Mary Jo Heath.

I saw this production in a cinema relay first-time round, when Jonas Kauffman assumed the role of Parsifal. It remains the most successful production I have seen. Daniele Gatti conducted (slowly) then, but I thought Nezet-Seguin's brisker pace worked very well, even if the cast was not of the quality of that at the premier. The orchestra, as ever, is world class. In an interval interview Nezet-Seguin said that his experience of conducting Bruckner (in which he excels) is the perfect preparation for this work. So obvious, once one who knows makes the point.

[DracoM]

I saw the production in NYC with Kaufmann.

He was in a totally different league. Pretty bloody show - menstrual? Hymen-breaking? Blood-letting À verse
I didn't think the grail ceremonies had enough dignity, as if the producer lacked the courage to negotiate the whole myth / transcendental shtick.
But Kaufmann...............yes. He'll do.

[Conchis]

Peter Gelb announced during an interval in yesterday's broadcast of Parsifal from the Met that the Music Director Designate, Yannick Nezet-Seguin, would assume his role as Music -Director a year earlier, commencing next season. Mr Gelb made no mention of James Levine, neither did his interviewer Mary Jo Heath.

I saw this production in a cinema relay first-time round, when Jonas Kauffman assumed the role of Parsifal. It remains the most successful production I have seen. Daniele Gatti conducted (slowly) then, but I thought Nezet-Seguin's brisker pace worked very well, even if the cast was not of the quality of that at the premier. The orchestra, as ever, is world class. In an interval interview Nezet-Seguin said that his experience of conducting Bruckner (in which he excels) is the perfect preparation for this work. So obvious, once one who knows makes the point.

If they are planning to airbrush Levine from the Met's history.....they're going to need a VERY big brush!