Opera in the Royal Albert Hall

[Hornspieler]

The BBC Philharmonic (my favourite of all the BBC orchestras) gave a performance of Beethoven's "Fidelio" his only opera during one of last week's proms.

It doesn't work, does it?

An opera requires a stage set, lighting, costumes, the occasional sound effects and of course a cast of actors and singers. Not all of those features were present, but most important of all the essential requirement is a good acoustic!

These can be found where opera belongs; in an Opera House - not in a Concert Hall.

As usual, the presenter's mindless chatter gave due warning of the shortcomings that would certainly follow.

Beethoven only wrote one opera and it took him ten years. Some great music, together with a choice of four different overtures (which are all suited to a concert performance.

You cannot perform on a Concert Hall Platform that which was written for the Opera House. This was not the John Wilson Orchestra playing "Hits from the Thirties" - this was a master work in the wrong place and it did no service for either the singers or the orchestra.

Such a let-down.

[MrGongGong]

Opera belongs

On the beach
In a warehouse with a string quartet in helicopters
On the bus


I did an "Opera" in the RAH once, it had huge projections and my bits involved 10-year-olds dipping resonant objects into large bins of water containing hydrophones and swirling the sound around the space while someone sang fragments of Darwin's letters and a large choir sang about fossils...... worked fine for me. But maybe that was because it was made for the venue? (I think it also had Stephen Stirling playing, so you would probably have loved it )

[Richard Tarleton]

HS, three of the very finest Wagner performances I've been to were concert performances - all at the RFH as it happens - a Meistersinger and a Tannhauser by Zurich Opera, and a Parsifal by the ROH (during the closure). Also, I think of Sr Colin Davis's marvellous Trojans at the Barbican.

I like it - the benefits of live performance, without having to suffer whatever wretched personal vision of the piece the director cares to inflict on you. Obviously the best performances are those in the opera house where everything works, but increasingly these days it doesn't

Fidelio - is it really an opera? Discuss.

There was a hilarious TV documentary in about 1972 about that great musician, pianist and conductor Edward Heath, who was also PM at the time. It included a brief exchange with the late great Edward Downes at the ROH which went roughly as follows:
Heath: Who are your favourite opera composers?
Downes: Wagner and Verdi
Heath: What about Mozart and Beethoven?
Downes: I don't like Mozart, and Beethoven isn't an opera composer
Heath (looks affronted, lost for words, cut).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Fidelio - is it really an opera?

No - it's a Singspiel.

[edashtav]

The BBC Philharmonic (my favourite of all the BBC orchestras) gave a performance of Beethoven's "Fidelio" his only opera during one of last week's proms.

It doesn't work, does it?

An opera requires a stage set, lighting, costumes, the occasional sound effects and of course a cast of actors and singers. Not all of those features were present, but most important of all the essential requirement is a good acoustic!

These can be found where opera belongs; in an Opera House - not in a Concert Hall.

As usual, the presenter's mindless chatter gave due warning of the shortcomings that would certainly follow.

Beethoven only wrote one opera and it took him ten years. Some great music, together with a choice of four different overtures (which are all suited to a concert performance.

You cannot perform on a Concert Hall Platform that which was written for the Opera House. This was not the John Wilson Orchestra playing "Hits from the Thirties" - this was a master work in the wrong place and it did no service for either the singers or the orchestra.

Such a let-down.

You're right ON THIS OCCASION, hs, but not in general.
The better aspects of Mela's Fidelio were the spiky, hard-driven Overture, the tenor's magnificent crescendo on his "Gott" entry, and Louise Alder. That there was no drama was not due to lack of staging or an Opera House, after all I was listening on radio, but due to a bunch of leading characters who sang neatly but economically, almost "marking their parts". Plus Beethoven, who was an apprentice opera composer. He composed Fidelio as if writing a series of rounded symphonic movements. For me, the work lacks cut and thrust. It has too much of bad Cherubini, and insufficient of good Mozart. A Musicologist friend told me, the other day, that he thought of Fidelio as an Oratorio. There's a two-dimensional character to Fidelio; I feel I'm examining a painting of emotional crises and moral dilemmas rather than being "in the thick of it".

Finally, if we agree with you, hornspieler, surely we must persuade FOR3 to campaign for a ban on opera on Radio 3.

[verismissimo]

Fidelio - is it really an opera? Discuss.

So good he wrote it twice.

[Richard Tarleton]

No - it's a Singspiel.

That's what I thought.

"Semi-staged" can also work well - concert performance but with a couple of props, a hint at costume.....

[Pulcinella]

An opera requires a stage set, lighting, costumes, the occasional sound effects and of course a cast of actors and singers. Not all of those features were present, but most important of all the essential requirement is a good acoustic!

These can be found where opera belongs; in an Opera House - not in a Concert Hall.

I'm not persuaded that all opera houses have consistently good acoustics, hs.
They certainly don't all have good sightlines, and even if you can bear to watch the production they (the productions) are too often designed with only the centre stalls audience in mind.

Give me a good concert performance any day, well, most days, especially if the alternative is for the opera never to be heard because of difficulties in staging it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Semi-staged" can also work well - concert performance but with a couple of props, a hint at costume.....

Much depends on what's expected from the word "Stage" (either noun or verb): I suspect that there might be quite a few Opera-goers who haven't read Peter Brooke's The Empty Space and many who share Hs's prej ... err ... opinion. It seems sweetly quaint to me - like suggesting that String Quartets should only be played in a (large) living room.

[gurnemanz]

It can work. Offhand, a couple of memorable Prom opera experiences over the years come to mind:

Boulez/Parsifal (1972 - on two separate evenings. I was a student and stood in th Arena clutching a tiny Reclam copy of the libretto with pencilled-in notes about leitmotivs)

Haitink/Glyndebourne Don Giovanni 1977 - I remember a lot of semi-staged-style acting, even some props, especially Richard Van Allan as Leporello.

Barenboim/Berliner Staatskapelle Götterdämmerung a few years ago.

[verismissimo]

... There was a hilarious TV documentary in about 1972 about that great musician, pianist and conductor Edward Heath, who was also PM at the time. It included a brief exchange with the late great Edward Downes at the ROH which went roughly as follows:
Heath: Who are your favourite opera composers?
Downes: Wagner and Verdi
Heath: What about Mozart and Beethoven?
Downes: I don't like Mozart, and Beethoven isn't an opera composer
Heath (looks affronted, lost for words, cut).

Of course, Ted was a lifelong socialist.

[Richard Tarleton]

I suspect that there might be quite a few Opera-goers who haven't read Peter Brooke's The Empty Space

Including me - will now put that right - though I am familiar with PB's work, saw his legendary Midsummer Night's Dream in the 60s.....

Great what one learns on this forum

I saw the (then) Kirov's "semi-staged" Boris (original version) at Drury Lane in 1997 - just a bit of space in front of the orchestra for the principals to stand and move about a bit, just a bit of stage business, costume no more than a cloak or over-garment here or there (chorus behind the orchestra)....dramatic impact not equalled by the two properly staged Borises I've seen since.

[makropulos]

It can work. Offhand, a couple of memorable Prom opera experiences over the years come to mind:

Boulez/Parsifal (1972 - on two separate evenings. I was a student and stood in th Arena clutching a tiny Reclam copy of the libretto with pencilled-in notes about leitmotivs)

Haitink/Glyndebourne Don Giovanni 1977 - I remember a lot of semi-staged-style acting, even some props, especially Richard Van Allan as Leporello.

Barenboim/Berliner Staatskapelle Götterdämmerung a few years ago.

Agreed. I remember a few that worked very well including Savitri with Janet Baker (1974), and the ENO Katya Kabanova (1974) and Gloriana (1973). Likewise the Colin Davis Fidelio already mentioned. Those were all events I went to, but more often I hear these things on the radio and they often come across as convincing musical experiences even though the RAH is the "wrong" place. There was a WNO Meistersinger a few years ago that sounded tremendous.

However, I agree with HS that the acoustic of an opera house is the way these works should be heard. But not every house can boast the excellent acoustics of Bayreuth, or the ROH - or the Coli (not always ideal, but terrific for big works like War and Peace). Mind you, record companies have often taken a different view: anyone with a collection of opera on record will have performances recorded in venues that are far too resonant for my liking. But if the singing and playing are really convincing then that becomes a secondary consideration. Even so, it's one of the reasons I have a lot of live opera performances.

[Stanley Stewart]

Including me - will now put that right - though I am familiar with PB's work, saw his legendary Midsummer Night's Dream in the 60s.....

Great what one learns on this forum

I saw the (then) Kirov's "semi-staged" Boris (original version) at Drury Lane in 1997 - just a bit of space in front of the orchestra for the principals to stand and move about a bit, just a bit of stage business, costume no more than a cloak or over-garment here or there (chorus behind the orchestra)....dramatic impact not equalled by the two properly staged Borises I've seen since.

The Empty Space, (1968), published by Pelican paperback, Richard, strongly recommended, although my copy was written by Peter BROOK... I also recommend his The Shifting Point, (Methuen, 1988), forty years of theatrical exploration, 1946/87, including discussion of his magical RSC production, 1970, of MND still vivid in my mind.

[Petrushka]

Barenboim/Berliner Staatskapelle Götterdämmerung [at the 2013 Proms].

I was present at this too and it was one of the most terrific musical experiences I've had. Totally convincing in every way with a stellar cast, great orchestra and conductor one simply did not need costumes and some director's tedious 'conception' to be gripped by the drama.