Reggie rehearsing Tristan in 1981

[teamsaint]

Btw, you don't know how old I am.


?

I do.

[Beef Oven!]

The gist of my contributions to this thread:

Your opinions as expressed.

1) Reginald Goodall is an overestimated Wagner conductor.

Your opinion (that may not be widely held)

2) Reginald Goodall was an unrepentant fascist.

I don't know if he remained a fascist sympathiser, but he does not appear to have repented (maybe he didn't feel he needed to - that's up to him, surely?)

3) Some of Goodall's defenders are extremely questionable people - and one such is prominent in this discussion.

What is questionable about me? Please back this accusation up. Why do you think I'm 'defending' him from your attacks?)

(and why do you think it's ok to defame and libel me like that?)

[Beef Oven!]

I do.

[Conchis]

As this thread has proved, I am far from being alone in my opinion of Goodall's abilities and his character. My opinion is by no means an eccentric one.

It is tedious to append an 'imo' every time you speak your mind: obviously, I only speak for myself but that should be obvious from the fact that it's 'me' posting.


And, actually, I do know how old you are (and where you live). But, don't worry, I'm not likely to be paying you a visit, or sending you a birthday card.


I believe your mother gave you the middle name 'Tedium'....


As to what's questionable about you....it was obvious from your puerile contributions to the Referendum thread that you're one of those people who just like to strike poses for the sake of standing out, something you achieve but not in the way you would prefer. Your analysis of politics is as ill-informed and supericial as your analysis of music. You don't strike me as being very talented in the upstairs department.

You're also an Ayn Rand 'fan': the classic indicator of a fifth-rate mind.

[ahinton]

The gist of my contributions to this thread:

1) Reginald Goodall is an overestimated Wagner conductor.
2) Reginald Goodall was an unrepentant fascist.
3) Some of Goodall's defenders are extremely questionable people - and one such is prominent in this discussion.

1) is a matter of personal opinion alone
2) is open to question since there appears to be no proof that, having ostensibly (and most regrettably) become one, he remained one until his dying day
3) is dependent at least in part upon what it is against him that anyone might (or might not) seek to defend him and is, moreover, a matter of personal opinion.
That Goodall espoused Fascism during the 1930s and beyond cannot be denied; whether he did so for life is not only questionable but also not a factor that could or would have affected his abilities as a conductor. As he's been dead for a long time and as his principal legacy is that of the performances that he conducted and the recordings thereof, only 1) above would appear any longer to have anything more than possible historical relevance today.

[ahinton]

My understanding is that you are ignored by a 'significant' number of members on this board - indeed, you must qualify as For3's 'Most Ignored' member. I hope you're happy with that accolade - you're unlikely to get any others.

I'm struggling to think of a single contribution you've made to any discussion, either here or elsewhere, which has been interesting and/or constructive and which has not evidenced an underlying desire to 'flame' (to use a word people of your age were once wont to use).

No wonder you keep flouncing off and then coming back. The real world is likely to be even less tolerant of your puerilities than the virtual world.

Your "struggles" are your own concern and are not obviously experienced by other members here; on the contrary, per ardua ad hominem appears to be your watchword.

[Conchis]

1) is a matter of personal opinion alone
2) is open to question since there appears to be no proof that, having ostensibly (and most regrettably) become one, he remained one until his dying day
3) is dependent at least in part upon what it is against him that anyone might (or might not) seek to defend him and is, moreover, a matter of personal opinion.
That Goodall espoused Fascism during the 1930s and beyond cannot be denied; whether he did so for life is not only questionable but also not a factor that could or would have affected his abilities as a conductor. As he's been dead for a long time and as his principal legacy is that of the performances that he conducted and the recordings thereof, only 1) above would appear any longer to have anything more than possible historical relevance today.

Have you read the Lucas biography? It makes it clear that the Goodall of the 80s was the same man as the Goodall of the 30s - albeit with less energy and a certain degree of (acquired) tact.

As to the politics influencing conducting style....I can remember a very intersting R3 programme back in the 90s about the 'nazification' of musical interpretation. The piece specifically referred to was Bruckner's Third Symphony. I'm afraid I can't remember the present or contributors but it demonstrated how certain conductors colluded in turning parts of the German symphonic repertoire into putattive Leni Riefenstahl soundtracks.

[Conchis]

Your "struggles" are your own concern and are not obviousoly experienced by other members here; on the contrary, per ardua ad hominem appears to be your watchword.

There is no other way that I know of.....

[ahinton]

There is no other way that I know of.....

How sad.

[Conchis]

How sad.

Not sure what you mean, actually, unless you're suggesting i should just accept the ad homimen attacks of someone who doesn't know his subject and whose 'defence' of Goodall is superficial and wrong-headed.

[ahinton]

Not sure what you mean, actually, unless you're suggesting i should just accept the ad homimen attacks of someone who doesn't know his subject and whose 'defence' of Goodall is superficial and wrong-headed.

I was - as I'd thought was clear as I was responding to you - referring to your own ad hominem attacks.

[Conchis]

I was - as I'd thought was clear as I was responding to you - referring to your own ad hominem attacks.

Please re-read the thread from the beginning (if you've got the time) and you'll see where these 'attacks' started.

I'm quite happy to talk about Reginald Goodall. If you'd like to start a separte thread to specifically talk about me, I'll be very flattered - but a) I'm not a musician and b) I think it would be somewhat off-topic.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This is getting very tedious - and I've been looking for a pretext for using my hitherto unused "Cancel Thread" button. If folks have nothing further to add than mud-slinging suggestions about wither other Forunistas can take themselves ...

[Richard Barrett]

As to the politics influencing conducting style....I can remember a very intersting R3 programme back in the 90s about the 'nazification' of musical interpretation. The piece specifically referred to was Bruckner's Third Symphony. I'm afraid I can't remember the present or contributors but it demonstrated how certain conductors colluded in turning parts of the German symphonic repertoire into putattive Leni Riefenstahl soundtracks.

I think this is an interesting subject (if I may be excused for trying to continue this discussion). Given that it could be said that extreme-right attitudes involve a failure of the imagination at a deep level (for example the loss of the ability to view all of one's fellow humans as equally human), would this not lead to an impoverishment in how such people would approach musical performance? Not necessarily, seems to be the answer. Some are better able to compartmentalise their minds than others. It isn't possible in principle to extrapolate for example a conductor's politics from their interpretations, although in some cases it might be. So it is with composers and their music of course.

[Conchis]

I think this is an interesting subject (if I may be excused for trying to continue this discussion). Given that it could be said that extreme-right attitudes involve a failure of the imagination at a deep level (for example the loss of the ability to view all of one's fellow humans as equally human), would this not lead to an impoverishment in how such people would approach musical performance? Not necessarily, seems to be the answer. Some are better able to compartmentalise their minds than others. It isn't possible in principle to extrapolate for example a conductor's politics from their interpretations, although in some cases it might be. So it is with composers and their music of course.

Recorded evidnece is scant but I remember reading how the Bayreuth productions of the 30s (supervised by Winfred Wagner) were notorious for the emphasis they placed on the more 'brutal' leitmotivs - the 'sword motif' in the Ring and Siegfried's horn call. The stage designs were of piece with this approach.