Reggie rehearsing Tristan in 1981

[french frank]

These arguments about dead musicians with poisonous views get nobody anywhere. (I'm never going to listen to Goodall's Wagner recordings because I insist on Wagner being performed in German; opinions may differ but personally I don't want to hear it any other way.) Plenty of people involved with German musical life in the 1930s are more or less compromised by their accommodation to or outright support of the Third Reich. But they're all dead now, and avoiding their work on political grounds doesn't really achieve anything. The living are a different matter.

I do agree. I read the Lucas book about six months ago and decided to say nothing about it. It was a sort of conscientiousness that made me respond now: having formed a certain impression, I could do no other I still don't find Wagner interesting.

Conchis: I agree there are very dark forces about now - as, on and off, there always have been. You need to see my rants In Another Place to know my feelings …

[Conchis]

I don't see where this is considered acceptable on here.

And why is it ''deeply racist'', anyway? Doesn't leave much headroom for the really ghastly stuff, does it?

Are you not getting a bit hysterical about this?

You've cornered the market in hysteria, owd son.

[ahinton]

I don't see where this is considered acceptable on here.

And why is it ''deeply racist'', anyway? Doesn't leave much headroom for the really ghastly stuff, does it?

Are you not getting a bit hysterical about this?

If it isn't "deeply racist" to commend the confinement of everyone to their countries of origin, it's hard to imagine what would be; in any case, such a notion sounds ather absurd coming from an Englishman who made no bones about being such a passionate Germanophile! - it would also be utterly impossible to achieve without universal international consensus and, as that could never arise, the idea is not merely offensive but also the height (or rather depth) of absurdity. Should I return to Scotland forthwith?

[Conchis]

I do agree. I read the Lucas book about six months ago and decided to say nothing about it. It was a sort of conscientiousness that made me respond now: having formed a certain impression, I could do no other I still don't find Wagner interesting.

Conchis: I agree there are very dark forces about now - as, on and off, there always have been. You need to see my rants In Another Place to know my feelings …

I think it takes determination to read a book on Goodall if you don't like Wagner.

I have to credit Lucas with doing an excellent job on his subject. He obviously admired Goodall's art (and Goodall, as a patron of Lucas' wife, was almost a family friend). Given the circumstances, and the book's rather cosy title, I was expecting another whitewash a la the Burton documentary with the thorny issues sidestepped. Goodall's career had ended in 1987 and he had only another three years to live after that, so he probably figured that the book wouldn't appear in his lifetime anyway. I enjoyed the unexpected early stuff about his father's imprisonment and RG's subsequent life-changing flight to Canada. It was just as well for him that people didn't have to 'stay in their own countries' in those days - otherwise his childhood would have been a damn sight more difficult.

[Conchis]

Whilst I can broadly concur with what you say, is that - or can it reasonably be regarded as - a valid reason for boycotting or otherwise disparaging the recordings of a conductor who's been dead for not far short of 30 years? One might as well frown on productions of the composer with whose work he was most closely associated, for similar reasons - and, while we're at it, should we also question why so many of the works of Richard Strauss are so widely performed, even though similar kinds of accusation against him appear to have considerably less foundation? Richard Barrett is correct about this (and I, too, much prefer Wagner sung in German because he conceived his musikdramas in German).

I wasn't suggesting boycotting his recordings, though I wouldn't consider myself horribly deprived if I was somehow 'prevented' from listening to them.

[teamsaint]

There are indeed dark forces at work today . Many of them might come under the category of elephants in the room.
However, unsubstantiated and vitriolic accusations around other peoples motivations and opinions, ( and the process by which they are assumed to have come to their conclusions) are simply not an effective way to combat these dark forces, and sadly that is the direction of travel of way too much current " debate". Check out the comments column of your preferred online broadsheet for confirmation.

[ahinton]

I wasn't suggesting boycotting his recordings, though I wouldn't consider myself horribly deprived if I was somehow 'prevented' from listening to them.

OK, so what are you actually suggesting?

[Beef Oven!]

Elephant in the room indeed!

Conchis, in a regrettably sexist manner tells us that he is going to be manly and engage with me even though he has me on ignore (mods, why don't we dispense with this hissy-facility? It's pointless since no-one sticks to it!), about some long dead musician who held a handful of distasteful views and joined a perfidious political party, while the world faces the biggest threat since Hitler and the third Reich. Not quite man enough to get macho about that one!

[Beef Oven!]

OK, so what are you actually suggesting?

He just wants to get macho on an easy target.

Happens a lot in here - remember all the squealing and foot-stamping about Trump in contrast to the silence around FGM etc?

[vinteuil]

... while the world faces the biggest threat since Hitler and the third Reich.

... bee colony collapse disorder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

Or are you being serious -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

.

[ahinton]

He just wants to get macho on an easy target.

Happens a lot in here - remember all the squealing and foot-stamping about Trump in contrast to the silence around FGM etc?

Be that as it may or may not, your considered response to #93 might not come amiss!

[Conchis]

Elephant in the room indeed!

Conchis, in a regrettably sexist manner tells us that he is going to be manly and engage with me even though he has me on ignore (mods, why don't we dispense with this hissy-facility? It's pointless since no-one sticks to it!), about some long dead musician who held a handful of distasteful views and joined a perfidious political party, while the world faces the biggest threat since Hitler and the third Reich. Not quite man enough to get macho about that one!

My understanding is that you are ignored by a 'significant' number of members on this board - indeed, you must qualify as For3's 'Most Ignored' member. I hope you're happy with that accolade - you're unlikely to get any others.

I'm struggling to think of a single contribution you've made to any discussion, either here or elsewhere, which has been interesting and/or constructive and which has not evidenced an underlying desire to 'flame' (to use a word people of your age were once wont to use).

No wonder you keep flouncing off and then coming back. The real world is likely to be even less tolerant of your puerilities than the virtual world.

[Conchis]

OK, so what are you actually suggesting?

The gist of my contributions to this thread:

1) Reginald Goodall is an overestimated Wagner conductor.
2) Reginald Goodall was an unrepentant fascist.
3) Some of Goodall's defenders are extremely questionable people - and one such is prominent in this discussion.

[Beef Oven!]

My understanding is that you are ignored by a 'significant' number of members on this board - indeed, you must qualify as For3's 'Most Ignored' member. I hope you're happy with that accolade - you're unlikely to get any others.

You really need to do something about this opinion/fact interface problem that you have!

I'm struggling to think of a single contribution you've made to any discussion, either here or elsewhere, which has been interesting and/or constructive and which has not evidenced an underlying desire to 'flame' (to use a word people of your age were once wont to use).

That's another opinion

Btw, you don't know how old I am.

No wonder you keep flouncing off and then coming back. The real world is likely to be even less tolerant of your puerilities than the virtual world.

Have you got the right person? I don't flounce off!!!!!! WTF are you on about??

[teamsaint]

My understanding is that you are ignored by a 'significant' number of members on this board - indeed, you must qualify as For3's 'Most Ignored' member. I hope you're happy with that accolade - you're unlikely to get any others.

I'm struggling to think of a single contribution you've made to any discussion, either here or elsewhere, which has been interesting and/or constructive and which has not evidenced an underlying desire to 'flame' (to use a word people of your age were once wont to use).

No wonder you keep flouncing off and then coming back. The real world is likely to be even less tolerant of your puerilities than the virtual world.

In my experience, the " real world"( wherever that is ) is a good deal more tolerant than the online world, in general.

Your comments about Beefy's contributions to musical threads are incorrect, he make a huge and wide ranging contribution to musical discussion. Musical discussion round here is a lot more dull when he is on his hols, or whatever. And he doesn't " Keep flouncing off" .