Met 'Carmen' 11.2.17

[DracoM]

Well, sorry, but that was unarguably the worst sung Carmen I've heard in years.
BUT I fear it is pretty typical of the Met's current production, which for my sins I have seen in NYC. It's a mess. They seem to be recruiting past-its or hopefuls rather than stars.

[johnn10]

The mystery for me is whether there is a part of Spain in which José is pronounced the way which Mary Jo Heath says it? If not, why does she do it. It is after all one of the most common names in Spanish speaking countries and is not difficult to pronounce.

[Richard Tarleton]

I wasn't listening, john, but I expect she pronounced it the French way? (it's a French opera after all). Likewise toréador is a French word (it's not a word you'd ever hear in Spain, it's in the Oxford Spanish Dictionary but not the diccionario Salamanca) - but the correct Spanish words, matador and torero, wouldn't have fitted the march rhythm

[Stanley Stewart]

I opted out of the broadcast as I'd recently watched an off-air DVD of "Carmen Jones", Otto Preminger's 1954 updated version - now rather dated but worth seeing again in its cinemascope ratio - Dorothy Dandridge and Harry Belefonte dubbed by Marilyn Horne and La Verne Hutcherson and I'd set aside the evening for listening to a newly arrived CD, Debussy, Images, Jeux and La plus que lente, San Francisco Symphony/ Michael Tilson Thomas, after a boning-up session reading Roger Nichols memoir, Debussy Remembered. Had to smile at a passage when Debussy, conversing with a visitor, discussed Carmen.

"He had read with passionate amusement Nietzche's Der Fall Wagner in which the author claims that in all Wagner's work it is impossible to find a passage in which the human heart beats so intensely as in the final phrase of Carmen, in the sobbing cry of Don Jose, driven insane by love, the dagger still in his hand, facing her whom he has just stabbed:...("You can arrest me, it was I who killed her. /O Carmen, my adored Carmen!"

"Show me on the piano how that goes," I asked suddenly curious. Claude was there before me.
In a voice made more beautiful and more bitterly sad by emotion , he sang Don Jose's heartbroken lament. I was shaken from head to foot. He was weeping, really weeping, with his voice as well as his eyes.

'You see...I sometimes feel that there is a little of that emotion, of that colour, in my music.
Just between us that may only be French music, but your little Bayreuth friend has got some way to go before he can twist our hearts like that!'

But it was now two o'clock in the morning, too late to start a discussion. I left.

'Good night, my respects to your lady friends! My neighbours will sing me an aubade tomorrow for making so much noise in the night!'

As I made my way down the dark staircase, an echo followed me, step by step. The voice of poor Don Jose, far above me, was once more secretly lamenting the faithlessness of his mistress, before Debussy went to sleep.

[vinteuil]

... toréador is a French word (it's not a word you'd ever hear in Spain, it's in the Oxford Spanish Dictionary but not the diccionario Salamanca) - but the correct Spanish words, matador and torero, wouldn't have fitted the march rhythm

... indeed I had previously thought that 'toreador' was an invention of Bizet - but I see that Littré provides a quotation from Saint-Simon. The Petit Robert informs us - " Toréador - 1659 ; tauréador xvii s; esp. toreador, qui ne s'emploie plus dans ce sens. VX Torero, matador. «On ne dit pas [...] toreador, mais bien torero» (Gaut.). - REM. Ce mot, qui a dû sa vogue au livret de «Carmen» (de Meilhac et Halévy), est inusité dans le langage de la tauromachie."

[underthecountertenor]

Well, sorry, but that was unarguably the worst sung Carmen I've heard in years.
BUT I fear it is pretty typical of the Met's current production, which for my sins I have seen in NYC. It's a mess. They seem to be recruiting past-its or hopefuls rather than stars.

Haven't listened to it, but the Carmen (Clementine Margaine) received very good notices all round (NY Times, FT and beyond) when she stood in for Sophie Koch on opening night. Roberto Aronica was a pretty much last-minute stand-in, who didn't do opening night, so no official reviews - but even the reliably entertainingly bitchy Parterre Box-ers were quite positive about the broadcast. http://parterre.com/2017/02/11/broadcastcarmen/

[Cockney Sparrow]

but even the reliably entertainingly bitchy Parterre Box-ers were quite positive about the broadcast.

With the demise of Intermezzo, does anyone know of a blog/forum concentrating on opera performances in London/ the UK / Uk visiting European houses? (I know there is comment on these boards, but not with the regularity and on the scale of Intermezzo, I suggest). [And no, I'm not suggesting that Intermezzo or anyone here is bitchy about performers or performances).

[underthecountertenor]

With the demise of Intermezzo, does anyone know of a blog/forum concentrating on opera performances in London/ the UK / Uk visiting European houses? (I know there is comment on these boards, but not with the regularity and on the scale of Intermezzo, I suggest). [And no, I'm not suggesting that Intermezzo or anyone here is bitchy about performers or performances).

I don't. Perhaps we should start one.

[DracoM]

Haven't listened to it, but the Carmen (Clementine Margaine) received very good notices all round (NY Times, FT and beyond) when she stood in for Sophie Koch on opening night. Roberto Aronica was a pretty much last-minute stand-in, who didn't do opening night, so no official reviews - but even the reliably entertainingly bitchy Parterre Box-ers were quite positive about the broadcast. http://parterre.com/2017/02/11/broadcastcarmen/

Yes, I know that, BUT sadly I fear I am less trusting of the judgement of a number of audiences at the Met.

I have been with both UK and American opera-loving parties who have heard the clapping and the encores and cheering, and looked at each other with a wild surmise.

I can tell you that that Carmen was just such a production.

[doversoul1]

With the demise of Intermezzo, does anyone know of a blog/forum concentrating on opera performances in London/ the UK / Uk visiting European houses? (I know there is comment on these boards, but not with the regularity and on the scale of Intermezzo, I suggest). [And no, I'm not suggesting that Intermezzo or anyone here is bitchy about performers or performances).

This is where the forum’s own opera critic Il Grande Inquisitor writes (not exactly a blog or forum?).

https://bachtrack.com/review-madama-butterfly-chailly-hermanis-siri-hymel-scala-milan-december-2016

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?16191-La-Scala-Madama-Butterfly

[underthecountertenor]

Yes, I know that, BUT sadly I fear I am less trusting of the judgement of a number of audiences at the Met.

I have been with both UK and American opera-loving parties who have heard the clapping and the encores and cheering, and looked at each other with a wild surmise.

I can tell you that that Carmen was just such a production.

Totally agree with you about the general uncritical approbation of the Met audience. 'We've paid a lot for this, so it must be good'.

But the Parterre people are different, and they were going on the radio broadcast. Having said that, I'm perfectly willing to accept your indication that it's not worth wasting precious listening time on - Met radio broadcasts rarely are, what with one thing and another!

[DracoM]

YET, Jonas Kaufmann in Parsifal........I metaphorically walked barefoot to Jerusalem over broken glass for that

[underthecountertenor]

YET, Jonas Kaufmann in Parsifal........I metaphorically walked barefoot to Jerusalem over broken glass for that

Yes - and I still have the metaphorical bruised knees from my metaphorical ascent of La Scala Santa for the same reason.

"But once in a while the odd thing happens,
Once in a while the dream comes true,
And the whole pattern of life is altered,
Once in a while the moon turns blue."

[Cockney Sparrow]

"But once in a while the odd thing happens,
Once in a while the dream comes true,
And the whole pattern of life is altered,
Once in a while the moon turns blue."

I agree this is the reason why I keep going to live performances when I can. Those truly memorable occasions when everything seems to come together and I feel I've been very lucky to be there, and won't forget it. (I'm not sure about the Parsifal comments - is it well known that run was a Turkey, or alternatively are you referring to a wonderful experience?).

As to the suggestion that UK opera performance be discussed more extensively here - I'm not sure. At Intermezzo the postings and comments could be feisty - very critical of the powers that be (ROH and Coliseum) and individuals - Directors of Opera and directors/performers. In some respects that is exactly what is needed as poor quality needs to be exposed and corporate inanity challenged - for example in the case of the Colisseum the result has been a crisis (to end all crises - we hope!) reduced employment, and reduction in performance and the decisions taken along the way was challenged at Intermezzo. But it would be likely to result in complaints to moderators and limitations on debate - there has to be a limit to the time the mods would want to, or could, spend on it. One could even imagine lawyers letters with threats of action as there is big money at play.....

I know nothing about facebook or twitter but perhaps that is the place for it - seems essentially unregulated (or would be for the purposes discussed here) and the politicians using social media for insurgent campaigns have had great success with it? I know Intermezzo is on Twitter - she posts quite infrequently there nowadays, last time I looked.

[underthecountertenor]

I agree this is the reason why I keep going to live performances when I can. Those truly memorable occasions when everything seems to come together and I feel I've been very lucky to be there, and won't forget it. (I'm not sure about the Parsifal comments - is it well known that run was a Turkey, or alternatively are you referring to a wonderful experience?).

As to the suggestion that UK opera performance be discussed more extensively here - I'm not sure. At Intermezzo the postings and comments could be feisty - very critical of the powers that be (ROH and Coliseum) and individuals - Directors of Opera and directors/performers. In some respects that is exactly what is needed as poor quality needs to be exposed and corporate inanity challenged - for example in the case of the Colisseum the result has been a crisis (to end all crises - we hope!) reduced employment, and reduction in performance and the decisions taken along the way was challenged at Intermezzo. But it would be likely to result in complaints to moderators and limitations on debate - there has to be a limit to the time the mods would want to, or could, spend on it. One could even imagine lawyers letters with threats of action as there is big money at play.....

I know nothing about facebook or twitter but perhaps that is the place for it - seems essentially unregulated (or would be for the purposes discussed here) and the politicians using social media for insurgent campaigns have had great success with it? I know Intermezzo is on Twitter - she posts quite infrequently there nowadays, last time I looked.

As to Parsifal, I was agreeing with DracoM about the miraculous performance of Jonas Kaufmann in the title role in 2013 as being a rare example of 'must-hear' singing at the Met.

As to the possibility of a forum: I agree with you that here would not be the right place (and not only for the reasons you cite). I was (with a lamentable absence of clarity) suggesting that a forum of some sort could be set up by some of our number elsewhere. As doversoul mentions, Il Grande Inquisitor is already ploughing a furrow very effectively as it is.