Opera on 3: 4.06.11, 6.00 p.m. - Massenet's "Werther"

[LHC]

Stop it, Caliban. I was only giving a very selective and cynical 'reading between the lines' of what was, as LHC correctly said, a positive review.

The fault really lies with the opera - mostly the libretto. Sadly it has put me off shelling out to see Massenet ever again.

EDIT
Correction: for 'sadly', read 'happily'

I suspect that's a wise move. From my admittedly limited experience of Massenet's oevre, I'd say Werther pretty much represents his very best work.

[Nick Armstrong]

Sadly it has put me off shelling out to see Massenet ever again.

EDIT
Correction: for 'sadly', read 'happily'

Happily, I wasn't remotely tempted in the first place!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I saw this a couple of weeks ago (the performance which was being taped for R3) and thought it extremely good. I was very impressed with Villazon - yes, his voice is much smaller than pre-vocal trials and tribulations (though this hardly mattered from about six feet away in the Stalls Circle), but he has matured as a singer and learnt not to be so reckless with it. Sophie Koch was utterly convincing as Charlotte, as was Audun Iversen as Albert.

SJT is certainly no pushover - have you read his review of ENO's Dream...?!!

[rubbernecker]

SJT is certainly no pushover - have you read his review of ENO's Dream...?!!

I have now
See here

[Flosshilde]

Generally speaking, the French don't have a good record of setting German works, do they? I mean, look what Gounod did to Faust....

Why, what's wrong with it?

& Berlioz put in a pretty good effort, too.

[Mandryka]

Why, what's wrong with it?

& Berlioz put in a pretty good effort, too.

Where to begin....?

Basically, Gounod took a weighty work about human nature and turned it into a boulevard frippery.

Faust is the worst opera I've ever heard: it is dreadful on just about every level, I'd say.

[Flosshilde]

Well, I've heard it & it was far from the worst I've heard - I think Pelleas et Melissande would get that prize.

[Mandryka]

Well, I've heard it & it was far from the worst I've heard - I think Pelleas et Melissande would get that prize.

Bet you were friends with Bernard Levin, weren't you?

[Flosshilde]

Hmm - never met him - didn't he like P et M either? Obviously had good taste.

[perfect wagnerite]

Where to begin....?

Basically, Gounod took a weighty work about human nature and turned it into a boulevard frippery.

Faust is the worst opera I've ever heard: it is dreadful on just about every level, I'd say.

I'd disagree pretty fundamentally with that, and I think the accusation of frippery is unfounded. The case of Faust is very much one where received opinion has driven out sense and judgement - not least because not a few of those who condemn it as a piece of nineteenth-century frippery have never heard the opera Gounod wrote, which is an opera-comique with spoken dialogue, without the leaden recitatives that burden most performances (they are a later addition) and which contribute to an air of piety that is reinforced by the "moralistic" conclusion. Taken on its own terms, much of Faust - Acts 2 and 3 in particular - is light, melodic, full of the charm that is the essence of French opera. A performance of Faust at the ENO in the 1980s as Gounod wrote it, stripping away the accretions of the late nineteenth century, was something of a revelation.

Morevoer - in contradiction to what is often claimed about it not living up to Goethe's work, ironically, by focussing on the Marguerite story, Gounod concentrates on the only aspect of Part 1 of Faust that Goethe originated. By concentrating on Faust's seduction and abandonment of Marguerite, Gounod was actually getting at a part of Goethe's personal history and psyche that the hero-worshippers have long swept under the carpet.

The rot set in in the late nineteenth century, when the piece attracted the derision of Bernard Shaw and other critics for whom it became a model of fustiness and reaction; essentially, it was done to death by pious Victorianism and the appropriation of its music for a thousand drawing-room piano selections and barrel-organ medleys. I'd suggest that anyone who thinks it's the worst opera ever written needs to get out more, operatically speaking (they could try some of Mendelssohn's now forgotten pieces, or the murky byways of bel canto, for a start).

[Mandryka]

I'd disagree pretty fundamentally with that, and I think the accusation of frippery is unfounded. The case of Faust is very much one where received opinion has driven out sense and judgement - not least because not a few of those who condemn it as a piece of nineteenth-century frippery have never heard the opera Gounod wrote, which is an opera-comique with spoken dialogue, without the leaden recitatives that burden most performances (they are a later addition) and which contribute to an air of piety that is reinforced by the "moralistic" conclusion. Taken on its own terms, much of Faust - Acts 2 and 3 in particular - is light, melodic, full of the charm that is the essence of French opera. A performance of Faust at the ENO in the 1980s as Gounod wrote it, stripping away the accretions of the late nineteenth century, was something of a revelation.

Morevoer - in contradiction to what is often claimed about it not living up to Goethe's work, ironically, by focussing on the Marguerite story, Gounod concentrates on the only aspect of Part 1 of Faust that Goethe originated. By concentrating on Faust's seduction and abandonment of Marguerite, Gounod was actually getting at a part of Goethe's personal history and psyche that the hero-worshippers have long swept under the carpet.

The rot set in in the late nineteenth century, when the piece attracted the derision of Bernard Shaw and other critics for whom it became a model of fustiness and reaction; essentially, it was done to death by pious Victorianism and the appropriation of its music for a thousand drawing-room piano selections and barrel-organ medleys. I'd suggest that anyone who thinks it's the worst opera ever written needs to get out more, operatically speaking (they could try some of Mendelssohn's now forgotten pieces, or the murky byways of bel canto, for a start).

Never heard Mendelssohn's operas or explored the by-ways of bel canto.

So, let's just call it 'the world's most insufficiently neglected opera'.

I think I saw that ENO production - Ian Judge, wasn't it? - and I wasn't convinced at all. Pretty much a lowering experience all round.

[Mandryka]

Hmm - never met him - didn't he like P et M either? Obviously had good taste.

B.L. waged a one-man campaign against the opera following the 1969 ROH production, conducted by Pierre Boulez.

[french frank]

there is a fatal lack of dramatic tension, since the 'decision' has been made at the end fo the first scene.

I'm not sure that one necessarily follows the other (I think of Francis Iles's two most famous detective novels where he broke the rules by naming the murderer on the first page; or Paul Scott's Staying On, where most of the novel is a flashback leading up the event of the opening. The very tension lies in the fact that you know something is going to happen imminently but not exactly how or when). None of this is, however, a comment on Massenet's Werther. Like Vinteuil, I've only read the novel and tend to share the views of Thackeray and Vinteuil. Beside Werther Don Ottavio seems like Superman.

[vinteuil]

. Beside Werther Don Ottavio seems like Superman.

And yet I find there are some studies of (apparently) pusillanimous men which are much more intriguing and engaging than Werther - Benjamin Constant's Adolphe, Eugène Fromentin's Dominique, Etienne-Pivert de Senancour's Oberman ...

.

[french frank]

I was certainly underwhelmed by the Sorrows of Young W, but am inclined to reread it to make sure I haven't missed something very, very, significant.

I think of Adolphe and Dominique quite kindly through the light fog of time but suspect I would find both quite hard going now. Anyone written operas about them?