Opera North; Rosenkavalier

[Flay]

So why is Count Octavian performed by a woman? Was it simply that RS liked his ladies? (Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So why is Count Octavian performed by a woman? Was it simply that RS liked his ladies? (Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere).

Can you imagine the Acts Two and Three duets, or the Act Three Trio with Octavian sung by a Tenor - or (almost as bad) a Counter-Tenor?!

I don't think I need say more ...

[Flay]

So we have a woman, who is a man, dressing up to be a woman...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So we have a woman, who is a man, dressing up to be a woman...

Yup - just like Cherubino in The Marriage of Figaro.

(Rosenkavalier is often cavalier-ly referred to as being influenced by/an homage to/suffused in the world of Mozart (it's there in the ON Programme Book, too), but this is surely a mistake. The Music doesn't sound in the slightest Mozartean. The libretto, on the other hand, is influenced by/an homage to/suffused in the world of Beaumarchais (or, at least, Beaumarchais/Da Ponte).

[Pulcinella]

Yup - just like Cherubino in The Marriage of Figaro.

(Rosenkavalier is often cavalier-ly referred to as being influenced by/an homage to/suffused in the world of Mozart (it's there in the ON Programme Book, too), but this is surely a mistake. The Music doesn't sound in the slightest Mozartean. The libretto, on the other hand, is influenced by/an homage to/suffused in the world of Beaumarchais (or, at least, Beaumarchais/Da Ponte).

A Blackburn boy writing an homage?
How do you pronounce it, I wonder?
Will I have to change my habits when I move to Yorkshire?
(Perhaps best not to answer that!)
This Liverpool lad would write and say a homage!
(Apologies if wrong thread! )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This Liverpool lad would write and say a homage!

So would this Urmston lad.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Annommidge".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And in annower I'll say it in anotell, which will make for annillaryus moment for the staff.

(Oh - and I'm a Darrenner!)

[Pulcinella]

"Annommidge".

You wuz brung up right proper then, Darren!

Admittedly, I'll be ready for my tea in annower, but I'd never take it in anotell!

[Flay]

Can you imagine the Acts Two and Three duets, or the Act Three Trio with Octavian sung by a Tenor - or (almost as bad) a Counter-Tenor?!

I don't think I need say more ...

So are you saying he wrote these pieces first, then made the characters to fit? There must have been another reason.

Will I have to change my habits when I move to Yorkshire?

You'll look a honest person once you get your flat 'at

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So are you saying he wrote these pieces first, then made the characters to fit? There must have been another reason.

It was Hofmannsthal's idea, presenting Strauss with an operatic outline in which "there are two big parts - one for baritone, the other for a graceful girl dressed up as a man" * and Strauss eagerly accepted the idea. Strauss preferred female voices to the sound of a Tenor (IIRC, there aren't any mature Tenor "heroes" in Strauss operas) - and following Mozart's practice in Figaro of giving a teenage boy's role to a soprano gave him all the impetus he needed.

* - this is in the Programme Book for the production; page 16. £5 from selected Opera Houses.

[Flay]

(IIRC, there aren't any mature Tenor "heroes" in Strauss operas)

Are you sure? (I speak out of ignorance)

ROH site:

However, this year, The Royal Opera performs two Strauss operas which feature extraordinary parts for tenors – the Emperor in Die Frau ohne Schatten and Bacchus in Ariadne auf Naxos – for whom Strauss provides some of his most ardent melodies.

http://www.roh.org.uk/news/the-a-z-of-richard-strauss-t-is-for-tenor

[Nick Armstrong]

Admittedly, I'll be ready for my tea in annower, but I'd never take it in anotell!

Personally, I have me tea, I don't take it...

[Pulcinella]

Personally, I have me tea, I don't take it...

I might take tea (drink) if I was trying to be posh, but normally I just eat my tea (or gobble it down!).

(That's enuff off topic, Ed!)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Are you sure? (I speak out of ignorance)

No - hence the "IIRC". When I posted, I thought that DFoS had a tenor role - I'd forgotten about Bacchus