Boris from ROH

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  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20570

    #16
    Any thoughts on R-K's orchestration of this?

    Comment

    • Flosshilde
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 7988

      #17
      Originally posted by Giacomo View Post
      Good question. There is rarely enough basic information from the ROH perhaps because had there been full disclosure for Guillaume Tell I wouldn't have gone.
      I'm sure luring you in to a performance was uppermost in the mind/s of RO management when they planned the production & publicity.

      Comment

      • subcontrabass
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 2780

        #18
        Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
        Any thoughts on R-K's orchestration of this?
        One gets the impression that many prefer not to think about it and follow Cesar Cui: "Maybe Rimsky-Korsakov's harmonies are softer and more natural, his part-writing better, his scoring more skillful; but the result is not Mussorgsky, nor what Mussorgsky aimed at. The genuine music, with all its shortcomings, was more appropriate. I regret the genuine Boris, and feel that should it ever be revived on the stage of the Mariinskiy Theatre, it is desirable that it should be in the original."

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        • Flosshilde
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 7988

          #19
          Why is it that Musorsky's music was so much tinkered with? Did other composers think he was too incompetent to know what he was doing, or was his orchestration (& not just orchestration) to unusual to be pallatable?

          Comment

          • Nevilevelis

            #20
            Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
            Why is it that Musorsky's music was so much tinkered with? Did other composers think he was too incompetent to know what he was doing, or was his orchestration (& not just orchestration) to unusual to be pallatable?
            It was considered "unpolished", apparently. I await the pun!

            Comment

            • Howdenite
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 82

              #21
              Originally posted by Giacomo View Post
              Good question. There is rarely enough basic information from the ROH perhaps because had there been full disclosure for Guillaume Tell I wouldn't have gone.
              They do provide this for Boris:
              Acclaimed director Richard Jones (Il trittico for The Royal Opera; La fanciulla del West for ENO) directs a new production, where Boris’s deeply felt guilt and horror at the human sacrifices he has made in his ascent to power is emphasized through the realistic depiction of the murder of the young Crown Prince.

              It makes me glad I have seats in the slips where I can sit back and NOT watch selected portions as necessary. I choose not to go to most films due to the violence. I hope I don't have to choose not to go to most operas for the same reason!

              Comment

              • CallMePaul
                Full Member
                • Jan 2014
                • 789

                #22
                Originally posted by Giacomo View Post
                Good question. There is rarely enough basic information from the ROH perhaps because had there been full disclosure for Guillaume Tell I wouldn't have gone. As a result of the lack of discloser and being duped into going to GT I'm now not risking the ROH Boris Godunov. Not only does it not say which version is presented but no indication whether the production features Russians in large hats or pieces of fruit in a liquidiser - traditional or avant-garde. What do the spinning tops in the only picture signify?

                Compare:

                with:

                ...ah that's clearer.

                Checking my CDs, Gergiev's 1997 double dose gives the 1869 version at 2:07 so 2 hours with no interval is believable.
                The Mariinsky production looks a better bet, with a Russophone cast and a genuine bass in the title role. This production is of the 1872 edition and is timed at over 4 hrs, confirming that the ROH version is 1869. Not sure why the ROH is performing it without an interval, though.

                Comment

                • CallMePaul
                  Full Member
                  • Jan 2014
                  • 789

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                  Any thoughts on R-K's orchestration of this?
                  I would have hoped that this would have passed into history by now. I broadly agree with Cui's comments. The Rimsky-Korsakov edition was the norm in the USSR, though - maybe the Soviet authorities could not stomach the ending with the Simpleton; his song could be interpreted as foreseeing the 1917 revolution and the years of oppression that followed it. The present speaking through the past again!

                  Comment

                  • LHC
                    Full Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1556

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Howdenite View Post
                    They do provide this for Boris:
                    Acclaimed director Richard Jones (Il trittico for The Royal Opera; La fanciulla del West for ENO) directs a new production, where Boris’s deeply felt guilt and horror at the human sacrifices he has made in his ascent to power is emphasized through the realistic depiction of the murder of the young Crown Prince.

                    It makes me glad I have seats in the slips where I can sit back and NOT watch selected portions as necessary. I choose not to go to most films due to the violence. I hope I don't have to choose not to go to most operas for the same reason!
                    The ROH also warns that the production is not suitable for children under 12.

                    Anyway, as Richard Jones is directing, it is unlikely to be a 'traditional' production, but will have lots of wallpaper on show.
                    "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
                    Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

                    Comment

                    • Flosshilde
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7988

                      #25
                      Originally posted by LHC View Post
                      The ROH also warns that the production is not suitable for children under 12.
                      & Giacomo & Howdenite.

                      Comment

                      • Flosshilde
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 7988

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Nevilevelis View Post
                        It was considered "unpolished", apparently. I await the pun!
                        So not quite good enough, in other words, & the revisers thought they knew better.

                        Comment

                        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                          Gone fishin'
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 30163

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
                          So not quite good enough, in other words, & the revisers thought they knew better.
                          Yes - "amateurish", from an inspired drunkard. The originality of his rhythmic, harmonic, instrumental and structural workings took decades before they convinced a mass audience of their authenticity.
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                          Comment

                          • Nevilevelis

                            #28
                            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                            Yes - "amateurish", from an inspired drunkard. The originality of his rhythmic, harmonic, instrumental and structural workings took decades before they convinced a mass audience of their authenticity.
                            An opinion voiced by a rather imperious member of the tenor section the last time I did it went something like, "Sounds like there's something missing, dear! I'm not convinced!" Needless to say, I didn't agree!

                            Comment

                            • underthecountertenor
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 1584

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
                              & Giacomo & Howdenite.
                              The ROH has issued a Regiemask advisory for David-G.

                              Comment

                              • Giacomo
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2012
                                • 47

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
                                I'm sure luring you in to a performance was uppermost in the mind/s of RO management when they planned the production & publicity.
                                I'm surer you are being ironic but getting people in ought to be high in the minds of management.

                                Comment

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