Glyndebourne Merry Widow BBC FOUR

[Ein Heldenleben]

Is it just me or is this rather subtle Operetta being somewhat coarsened in this production ? Might have worked better in the theatre I guess . Very good Danilo though.

[Master Jacques]

Is it just me or is this rather subtle Operetta being somewhat coarsened in this production ? Might have worked better in the theatre I guess . Very good Danilo though.

It's not just you. This unspeakable piece of rip-roaring vulgarity (sibling to the same director's pier-end, lumpen Iolanthe at ENO) did not work in the theatre, for anyone with the remotest sensitivity towards Viennese operetta. And the house's chatelaine was grievously miscast. The whole fiasco was as dull and predictable as it was crass ... alas, the fate of nearly all 'major house' operetta and Savoy opera productions at the current juncture. The torch has been well and truly dropped. They don't appear to know what to do with this stuff. Their biggest mistake is trying to make it funny.

[MickyD]

I'm not at all surprised to read this. Almost every week I tune into the French TV stations to watch an opera or operetta only to find it more about the director's arrogance than the piece itself. After five minutes I switch off. If a director really thinks that the work is not good enough to stand on its own merits, then I really do wish they would just leave it alone.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=Master Jacques;n1326919]

It's not just you. This unspeakable piece of rip-roaring vulgarity (sibling to the same director's pier-end, lumpen Iolanthe at ENO) did not work in the theatre, for anyone with the remotest sensitivity towards Viennese operetta. And the house's chatelaine was grievously miscast. The whole fiasco was as dull and predictable as it was crass ... alas, the fate of nearly all 'major house' operetta and Savoy opera productions at the current juncture. The torch has been well and truly dropped. They don't appear to know what to do with this stuff. Their biggest mistake is trying to make it funny.[/QUOT


No point playing for laughs especially when they are coarse ones.

What they did to Sieh , dort kleine Pavilion will live a long time in the annals of operatic infamy.
That beautiful wistful song followed by Camille miming sex with an inflatable Valenciennes .

Such a wonderful bitter sweet operetta absolutely ruined …

[Dave2002]

It's not just you. This unspeakable piece of rip-roaring vulgarity (sibling to the same director's pier-end, lumpen Iolanthe at ENO) did not work in the theatre, for anyone with the remotest sensitivity towards Viennese operetta. And the house's chatelaine was grievously miscast. The whole fiasco was as dull and predictable as it was crass ... alas, the fate of nearly all 'major house' operetta and Savoy opera productions at the current juncture. The torch has been well and truly dropped. They don't appear to know what to do with this stuff. Their biggest mistake is trying to make it funny.[/QUOT


No point playing for laughs especially when they are coarse ones.

What they did to Sieh , dort kleine Pavilion will live a long time in the annals of operatic infamy.
That beautiful wistful song followed by Camille miming sex with an inflatable Valenciennes .

Such a wonderful bitter sweet operetta absolutely ruined …

I've only seen this once - live in the production mentioned here. Yes - it had faults, but most operas and productions do. The repetition of some of the "jokey" sections - not once, not twice but .... you fill in the number - was tedious in the extreme.
Nevertheless, overall I did enjoy it, and will probably look at the iPlayer version before it disappears. Also, having managed to avoid seeing this for very many years, I will probably watch another presentation in the fairly near future, so that at least I will have a comparison of different productions to consider. Before this my exposure to this was limited to a few waltzes and the Pavilon episode sung by Hilde Gueden, and Vilja.

Directors certainly do some pretty crass things- such as in the ENO.version of Fidelio in which Florestan gets shot at the end - something that probably wouldn't be noticed in an audio reording [ with a short section of diaogue removed], and did I imagine that in one of ENO's productions of Don Giovanni at the end DG sent Leporello down to hell [in the lift] instead of himself? Another somewhat whacky version of DG was in Odesa, in which at the end Don Giovanni and the Commendatore were seen drinking in a dubiouis venue above the stage - was it a bar, a soup kitchen or a brothel? Another FIdelio of "note" was that at Longborough, in which IIRC [which I probably don't!] "prisoners" were fed by tubes, and the "prison" seemed to be a factory for making illicit drugs.

Glyndebourne's own Fidelio a couple of years back was pretty dull - and also used extra dramatic "devices", though after a long dreary period Beethoven finally shone through in the last 10-15 minutes. I don't know that we needed such a boring and long lead up to the tremendous finale, though that did make the visit worthwhile.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've only seen this once - live in the production mentioned here. Yes - it had faults, but most operas and productions do. The repetition of some of the "jokey" sections - not once, not twice but .... you fill in the number - was tedious in the extreme.
Nevertheless, overall I did enjoy it, and will probably look at the iPlayer version before it disappears. Also, having managed to avoid seeing this for very many years, I will probably watch another presentation in the fairly near future, so that at least I will have a comparison of different productions to consider. Before this my exposure to this was limited to a few waltzes and the Pavilon episode sung by Hilde Gueden, and Vilja.

Directors certainly do some pretty crass things- such as in the ENO.version of Fidelio in which Florestan gets shot at the end - something that probably wouldn't be noticed in an audio reording [ with a short section of diaogue removed], and did I imagine that in one of ENO's productions of Don Giovanni at the end DG sent Leporello down to hell [in the lift] instead of himself? Another somewhat whacky version of DG was in Odesa, in which at the end Don Giovanni and the Commendatore were seen drinking in a dubiouis venue above the stage - was it a bar, a soup kitchen or a brothel? Another FIdelio of "note" was that at Longborough, in which IIRC [which I probably don't!] "prisoners" were fed by tubes, and the "prison" seemed to be a factory for making illicit drugs.

Glyndebourne's own Fidelio a couple of years back was pretty dull - and also used extra dramatic "devices", though after a long dreary period Beethoven finally shone through in the last 10-15 minutes. I don't know that we needed such a boring and long lead up to the tremendous finale, though that did make the visit worthwhile.

It was enjoyable chiefly due to the excellent singing of the Danilo , Valenciennes , and Camille who’s any a most affecting Sieh Dort einer kleiner Pavilion despite the best efforts of the director to undermine it. The Danilo was truly superb .
As MJ says I’m. I’m not sure Hanna Glawari suited Danielle De Niese . She’s better at the flirty seductive roles - a Musetta rather than a Mimi. Now is there a role in the Merry Widow like that ?
The final oddity was putting Hanna rather than Valenciennes in the Can Can line-up . That’s just not in the script and while not a directorial error of Florestan - shooting proportions doesn’t make sense. Though Danielle is an excellent hoofer by opera singer standards (which in general are not stellar).

In all a bizarre evening.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see this at the ROH or ENO with a strong cast (I reckon you could cast it several times over ) in a production. that captures the comedy and the bitter sweet nature of love revived ? I suspect doing that is too difficult these days for directors. It would even work set in Contemporary France / UK - aren’t we both going the way of Pontevedro ?
Incidentally jogging my memory of the Can Can line up I referred to Kobbé . There’s nothing on Lehar in there. . Did Lord Harewood have a problem with the Opera ? I seem to remember they had a very good trad production at ENO once. (Valerie Masterson ? All lost in the mists of time )

[Master Jacques]

I referred to Kobbé . There’s nothing on Lehar in there. . Did Lord Harewood have a problem with the Opera ? I seem to remember they had a very good trad production at ENO once. (Valerie Masterson ? All lost in the mists of time )

Kobbé is bedevilled by generic prejudice: Harewood avoided almost everything he considered sub-operatic, whether operetta (in any of its national forms), Savoy opera, musical play or zarzuela. You have to go to the excellent Operette: Porträt und Handbuch einer unerhörten Kunst by Volker Klotz to get something decent on the "silver age" favourites of Lehár and Kálmán - he also includes a judicious selection of zarzuelas. Likewise with Ganzl's and Lamb's various handbooks on musical theatre.

Personally, I am wedded to Kálmán rather than Lehár, whose brand of smartly snobbish, wistful saccharine gets me into wrist-slitting mode. Over the years, though, I've reached a gentle accommodation with The Merry Widow and accept it for what it is: a perfectly-formed specimen of a breed of which I'm not inordinately fond.

(PS I am with you on De Niese, a born Valencienne if ever I saw one, but singularly ill-fitted to the role of H.G. herself).

[Ein Heldenleben]

Kobbé is bedevilled by generic prejudice: Harewood avoided almost everything he considered sub-operatic, whether operetta (in any of its national forms), Savoy opera, musical play or zarzuela. You have to go to the excellent Operette: Porträt und Handbuch einer unerhörten Kunst by Volker Klotz to get something decent on the "silver age" favourites of Lehár and Kálmán - he also includes a judicious selection of zarzuelas. Likewise with Ganzl's and Lamb's various handbooks on musical theatre.

Personally, I am wedded to Kálmán rather than Lehár, whose brand of smartly snobbish, wistful saccharine gets me into wrist-slitting mode. Over the years, though, I've reached a gentle accommodation with The Merry Widow and accept it for what it is: a perfectly-formed specimen of a breed of which I'm not inordinately fond.

(PS I am with you on De Niese, a born Valencienne if ever I saw one, but singularly ill-fitted to the role of H.G. herself).

Yes I went to a La Boheme rehearsal (2023) where her arrival as Musetta just lifted the performance three notches. Her voice is wearing a bit but she has that indefinable onstage magnetism.

The Kobbé features Strauss - not just Fledermaus , Gypsy Baron , Night in Venice but also Weiner Blut . Never seen it (you will have ) but know the tune. Seems to be set during the Congress of Vienna - a more unlikely setting it would be tricky to imagine.

I suppose Lehar has suffered from being Hitler’s favourite . I don’t find him that saccharine a mere 5 on that scale with Sound Of Music a resounding ten.

I was in a school production of TMW once - assistant under- butler . I asked the sixth form girl playing Valenciennes why all the Can-Can girls were wearing only one glove .”The director [a teacher] thinks it’s sexier,”
Don’t think you’d get away with that nowadays. But as least we stuck to the text.
On that note the Can Can costumes at Glyndebourne were extremely unflattering ….

[Prommer]

I saw it in the theatre and it was great fun, but Lehár overwritten by McCrystal. As he does with G&S etc...

[Master Jacques]

The Kobbé features Strauss - not just Fledermaus , Gypsy Baron , Night in Venice but also Weiner Blut . Never seen it (you will have ) but know the tune. Seems to be set during the Congress of Vienna - a more unlikely setting it would be tricky to imagine.

Wiener Blut is best avoided, I think, as a dubious pastichio which neither Johann II nor his brother Josef (whose tunes were also commandeered) had anything much to do with. It's frustrating that J. Strauss's other stage works fall so far short of Die Fledermaus in every respect. Suppé is really a much more interesting stage composer, musically as well as theatrically.

Interestingly, Wiener Blut's 1899 premiere was totally overshadowed by the enormous Vienna triumph (as everywhere else) of Sidney Jones's The Geisha, and it closed after a handful of performances. The impresario shot himself.

[LHC]

It was enjoyable chiefly due to the excellent singing of the Danilo , Valenciennes , and Camille who’s any a most affecting Sieh Dort einer kleiner Pavilion despite the best efforts of the director to undermine it. The Danilo was truly superb .
As MJ says I’m. I’m not sure Hanna Glawari suited Danielle De Niese . She’s better at the flirty seductive roles - a Musetta rather than a Mimi. Now is there a role in the Merry Widow like that ?
The final oddity was putting Hanna rather than Valenciennes in the Can Can line-up . That’s just not in the script and while not a directorial error of Florestan - shooting proportions doesn’t make sense. Though Danielle is an excellent hoofer by opera singer standards (which in general are not stellar).

In all a bizarre evening.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see this at the ROH or ENO with a strong cast (I reckon you could cast it several times over ) in a production. that captures the comedy and the bitter sweet nature of love revived ? I suspect doing that is too difficult these days for directors. It would even work set in Contemporary France / UK - aren’t we both going the way of Pontevedro ?
Incidentally jogging my memory of the Can Can line up I referred to Kobbé . There’s nothing on Lehar in there. . Did Lord Harewood have a problem with the Opera ? I seem to remember they had a very good trad production at ENO once. (Valerie Masterson ? All lost in the mists of time )

ENO put it on with a new production in 2019 with Nathan Gunn and Sarah Tynan as Danilo and Hanna. I didn't see it, but judging by this review in the Guardian, the reworked translation by the people responsible for the Jerry Springer opera and Anna Nicole was even coarser than Glyndebourne's effort (for example, the writers decided that Pontevedro should have a beaver as its national symbol in order to introduce yet more Carry-On style double entendres into the text, and there is a scene set in a urinal so the men can have a pissing contest).

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/mar/03/the-merry-widow-review-english-national-opera-coliseum-london

As you can see from the accompanying photo, in this production Sarah Tynan's Hanna Glawari also joined the Grisettes instead of Valencienne.

[Ein Heldenleben]

ENO put it on with a new production in 2019 with Nathan Gunn and Sarah Tynan as Danilo and Hanna. I didn't see it, but judging by this review in the Guardian, the reworked translation by the people responsible for the Jerry Springer opera and Anna Nicole was even coarser than Glyndebourne's effort (for example, the writers decided that Pontevedro should have a beaver as its national symbol in order to introduce yet more Carry-On style double entendres into the text, and there is a scene set in a urinal so the men can have a pissing contest).

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/mar/03/the-merry-widow-review-english-national-opera-coliseum-london

As you can see from the accompanying photo, in this production Sarah Tynan's Hanna Glawari also joined the Grisettes instead of Valencienne.

Yes indeed . I guess you had to be there..The only beaver joke that works is the one in The Naked Gun.

[Master Jacques]

Yes indeed . I guess you had to be there.

In the case of that recent ENO Merry Widow, not being there was a great deal better than having to endure its barrel-bottom "humour". It was even more repulsive than Glyndebourne's paltry effort.

[Ein Heldenleben]

In the case of that recent ENO Merry Widow, not being there was a great deal better than having to endure its barrel-bottom "humour". It was even more repulsive than Glyndebourne's paltry effort.

It’s all evidence for the cultural decline file sadly.

[Master Jacques]

It’s all evidence for the cultural decline file sadly.

Yet the standard of 'classic' operetta productions has actually risen in Germany lately. Here they are gifted to directors who view them as clapped-out old muck, which is not to be respected for what it is, but must be rendered "funny" and "relevant" for populist consumption at any cost. Their failure to delicately coax them into revealing their sentimental wit/charm/beauty/gentle satire etc. lies at the root of these productions' total failure to imbue the operetta repertoire with any decent sense of stage life.