Aida

[richardfinegold]

I saw my first performance of Verdi Aida yesterday at the Chicago Lyric Opera Theater yesterday. Opera isn’t a main interest with me, but I was impressed with the theater. This one had a lot of dancing. Is Aida one of those nineteenth century operas that required the addition of ballet in order to be performed in Paris?
I am stating the obvious when I observe that Verdi is a great composer, that his music is excellent in context with the plot, and that Opera in general is about more than just music. However there really is only one great tune, The Triumphal March, and it’s a long time to sit for that morsel.
I also don’t get the fascination audiences have with lovers who cannot be together in life being united forever in death. Aida shares this with multiple other stories that have remained popular throughout the ages, such as Romeo and Juliet . If I was sentenced to die in that tomb, it would have caused me infinite distress to learn that my wife was not safe and was going to share my fate.

[smittims]

Yes, but opera never was realistic! Dr. Johnson called it ' an exotick and irrational entertainment'. More worrying to many people today is that so many operas end with the death of a young woman.

Aida was written for the opening of the Cairo Opera House, and yes, inserted ballets were still very much the rage. I think it's perpetual popularity is linked with several 'great tunes', such as 'Celeste Aida' , 'Ritorno Vincitor', ' O Patria Mia' and the soaring melody of the final duet.

As I understand it, Radames doesn't plan Aida's joining him. She sneaks in because she can see no other life outside. Yes, it;s wacky, but so are many moments in Wagner, such as finding a 100-piece orchestra on a mountain-top when Siegfried finds Brunnhilde. I'm afraid I know nothing of what's happening on stage in many opoeras. I just enjoy listening to the music. I'm tolf that's 'wrong'.

[richardfinegold]

Nothing wrong about it. I however, just don’t hear the great tunes that you do. The music is effective for accompanying the plot, and generally tuneful, but not particularly ear wormable

[Master Jacques]

I'm afraid I know nothing of what's happening on stage in many operas. I just enjoy listening to the music. I'm told that's 'wrong'.

Right or wrong, it's your loss. I only hope that your decision to "know nothing of what's happening on stage" precludes any baseless criticism of excellent libretti.

I must say, I was surprised in the recent thread on Butterfly to find that the depth of Pinkerton's dastardly behaviour was news to some contributors; so I can only suppose that your attitude to opera (as Bach reputedly said, "let's go listen to the pretty tunes, children") is something many casual listeners are proud of!

[Master Jacques]

This one had a lot of dancing. Is Aida one of those nineteenth century operas that required the addition of ballet in order to be performed in Paris?

Absolutely not. The ballets are intrinsic to the original Cairo score, and should further the drama rather than marking some sort of pause for ice creams, or for rich old men to leer at the legs of young ladies.

[Ein Heldenleben]

For years as. Wagnerite I slightly turned my nose up at Verdi and only really knew Aida from the Triumphal March. Now older and wiser I realise it’s a rare example of a popular masterpiece - something that Wagner couldn’t quite manage - except possibly in Die Meistersinger.The judgment scene must be one of the greatest in all opera - an extraordinary focus on one woman falling to pieces on stage. As for the tunes if I could write Celeste Aida and O Patria Mia my place amongst the immortals would be guaranteed, And that final duet with that vary rare and daring use of a major 7th in the melody - another masterstroke.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Absolutely not. The ballets are intrinsic to the original Cairo score, and should further the drama rather than marking some sort of pause for ice creams, or for rich old men to leer at the legs of young ladies.

Or in the case of the recent Covent Garden production the battle fatigues of largely male dancers.

[Simon Biazeck]

Or in the case of the recent Covent Garden production the battle fatigues of largely male dancers.

All the dancers in the Triumphal scene were men. There were a few covers, who were also men. The lifting and balance work required it. I was in the chorus as you might have guessed.

[Master Jacques]

All the dancers in the Triumphal scene were men. There were a few covers, who were also men. The lifting and balance work required it. I was in the chorus as you might have guessed.

I don't suppose that Verdi's actual ballet was danced by men in fatigues, though. At least it's supposed to be temple priestesses. What goes on in the Triumphal March is liberty hall.

[Ein Heldenleben]

All the dancers in the Triumphal scene were men. There were a few covers, who were also men. The lifting and balance work required it. I was in the chorus as you might have guessed.

Yes you’re right. There were female chorus singers in pseudo North Korean army dress - one or two were completely unconvincing largely thanks to the ill fitting costumes. My wife wrote a long email of complaint about this dreadful staging (not singing and orchestra who were absolutely superb ) to Ollie Mears and got the usual fob off.They couldn’t even light the principals properly - it only emerged at curtain call that the Aida was a very attractive woman - surely not without significance in a love story ?

PS the chorus covered themselves in glory .

[Master Jacques]

For years as. Wagnerite I slightly turned my nose up at Verdi and only really knew Aida from the Triumphal March. Now older and wiser I realise it’s a rare example of a popular masterpiece - something that Wagner couldn’t quite manage - except possibly in Die Meistersinger.The judgment scene must be one of the greatest in all opera - an extraordinary focus on one woman falling to pieces on stage. As for the tunes if I could write Celeste Aida and O Patria Mia my place amongst the immortals would be guaranteed, And that final duet with that vary rare and daring use of a major 7th in the melody - another masterstroke.

Have you noticed that Walton uses that wondrous major 7th theme, as the second subject in the first movement of his Symphony No.1? And I agree with you about the Judgement Scene, the collapse of the real tragic heroine of the opera, who is not Aida but Amneris. Having promoted the plot, she now sees the whole edifice come crashing down on her own head. It's Hamlet's vicious mole of nature all over again.

[Simon Biazeck]

I don't suppose that Verdi's actual ballet was danced by men in fatigues, though. At least it's supposed to be temple priestesses. What goes on in the Triumphal March is liberty hall.

I didn't suggest that. I am commenting on a particular production in which I was involved. No attempt to divert the discussion.

[Master Jacques]

For years as. Wagnerite I slightly turned my nose up at Verdi and only really knew Aida from the Triumphal March. Now older and wiser I realise it’s a rare example of a popular masterpiece - something that Wagner couldn’t quite manage - except possibly in Die Meistersinger.

The subject of Wagner and popular opera is a large and interesting one. I learned with interest that his earlier operas were all played through to his first wife Minna, who was an actress with no feeling for music but a great sense of theatre. Inevitably, she advised her husband that his worthy operas (notably Lohengrin) were boring as hell, and needed a few fanfares, marches and/or rousing choruses to jolly people along. Just as inevitably, he followed her advice - with immensely beneficial results. Minna is an unsung heroine, to whom we should all be grateful.

All opera needs those popular elements. Even Moses und Aron has its calf of gold orgy to buck us up.

[Simon Biazeck]

Yes you’re right. There were female chorus singers in pseudo North Korean army dress - one or two were completely unconvincing largely thanks to the ill fitting costumes. My wife wrote a long email of complaint about this dreadful staging (not singing and orchestra who were absolutely superb ) to Ollie Mears and got the usual fob off.They couldn’t even light the principals properly - it only emerged at curtain call that the Aida was a very attractive woman - surely not without significance in a love story ?

PS the chorus covered themselves in glory .

Thank you. This is the 2nd production of Aïda I have done at the ROH, and it's always a thrill to sing - probably my favourite Verdi work. I have sung it at ENO and on their Opera in English recording too.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Have you noticed that Walton uses that wondrous major 7th theme, as the second subject in the first movement of his Symphony No.1? And I agree with you about the Judgement Scene, the collapse of the real tragic heroine of the opera, who is not Aida but Amneris. Having promoted the plot, she now sees the whole edifice come crashing down on her own head. It's Hamlet's vicious mole of nature all over again.

No I hadn’t - must Listen . It’s not unusual in instrumental music but it’s rare in vocal I suspect because it’s difficult to pitch . Well it is for me but not for pros obvs

I have an aural mnemonic for intervals as I don’t have perfect pitch

octave - first two notes Over The Rainbow
major seventh Aida closing duet
minor seventh either There’s a Place for us from West Side Story or the Adagio from the Emperor Piano Concerto
major sixth - first two notes of My Way ( “And Now”)
mimor sixth first two notes of second phrase of My Way (“My Friends “)
major Fifth Also Sprach
minor or diminished fifth Maria from West Side Story - another rare interval…

the others are pretty easy …