ROH 'William Tell'

[Don Basilio]

and how do we know the difference?

How about using our critical intelligence and imagination with regard to our response to the performance?

I refuse to play goodies and baddies on this issue.

[MrGongGong]

How about using our critical intelligence and imagination with regard to our response to the performance?

That doesn't really answer the question of whether a "work" has an existence separate from it's context.
I'm sure the director of this performance was using "critical intelligence", but that's obviously NOT what lots of people seem to think.

[Serial_Apologist]

Erm No it's not that at all IMV



I'm interested in whether this is true for all works or just some?
and how do we know the difference?

Some people make a separation between works of art claimed to express values which are eternally true, and therefore should not be tampered with - e.g. The Bible, The Koran, Bach's B Minor Mass - and those whose significance is deemed more specifically historic and conjunctural, e.g. Shostakovitch 7? Is that what you're getting at?

[MrGongGong]

Some people make a separation between works of art claimed to express values which are eternally true, and therefore should not be tampered with - e.g. The Bible, The Koran, Bach's B Minor Mass - and those whose significance is deemed more specifically historic and conjunctural, e.g. Shostakovitch 7? Is that what you're getting at?

Partly

Also that some folks seem genuinely outraged that something they consider to be complete in the form it was when it's creator died is reimagined in ways that it's creator(s) couldn't conceive.

I haven't seen this production but I do think it has raised questions about some things which are contemporary assumptions.
But it does seem that folks aren't really interested in discussing.

[Don Basilio]

I took "how do we know the difference" as referring to the difference between a worthwhile interpretation and a misleading one. I realise that was not what you meant.

Works of art only exist if they are experienced. The person who interprets them is the reader/auditor. The singers and orchestra are only the mediators and the director is their handmaid.

Incidentally, I read and mediate on the Bible daily. In a sense that is tampering with it, isn't it?

[vinteuil]

The singers and orchestra are only the mediators and the director is their handmaid.

Incidentally, I read and mediate on the Bible daily. In a sense that is tampering with it, isn't it?

... well, I suppose that will to some extent depend on what status 'The Bible' has for you as a reader.

And also, whether you are 'mediating' it or 'meditating' upon it...

[MrGongGong]

Works of art only exist if they are experienced. The person who interprets them is the reader/auditor. The singers and orchestra are only the mediators and the director is their handmaid.

Hummmm

I'm not sure about that.
I can think of works of art (in particular musics) that don't work like this at all.

a worthwhile interpretation and a misleading one

Which (in my head at least) implies that there is a place to be "led" to?

[Don Basilio]

Ta vints. I meant "meditate".

[jean]

...mediatoris officium proprie est coniungere eos inter quos est mediator, nam extrema uniuntur in medio. Unire autem homines Deo perfective quidem convenit Christo, per quem homines reconciliantur Deo, secundum illud II Cor. V, Deus erat in Christo mundum reconcilians sibi. Et ideo solus Christus est perfectus Dei et hominum mediator, inquantum per suam mortem humanum genus Deo reconciliavit...

[vinteuil]

... but why mediated thro' Latin? Ain't Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek good enuff?

[Yes, I kno S Thomas writ in Latin... ]

[underthecountertenor]

Having recovered from snorting with laughter (err, the Campari went up my nose) at your description of the apparition in a veil, I also much agree with you. I only regret being a miserable skinflint and not buying a better seat where I might have seen a bit more of the stage. And I think that you might on to a winner with the "Regiemask"

Thanks!!

[Don Basilio]

Which (in my head at least) implies that there is a place to be "led" to?

In my first post I gave a number of examples of why this particular performance of this particular opera was unsatisfactory or misleading (and a number of examples where it worked).

I have been talking all the time about a specific performance. MrGongGong has been talking about abstract possibilities. Hence the confusion.

[MrGongGong]

In my first post I gave a number of examples of why this particular performance of this particular opera was unsatisfactory or misleading (and a number of examples where it worked).

I have been talking all the time about a specific performance. MrGongGong has been talking about abstract possibilities. Hence the confusion.

No confusion really
more that its interesting to explore things a bit more than making lists of things one likes and dislikes (not that you were doing that :peace dove:)

Music is "abstract" IMV (it's also many other things)

[Prommer]

Music is "abstract" IMV (it's also many other things)

Gosh how clever.

Have been away for a week and yet I return to find Mr GG and Flossie still grinding on...?

[Flosshilde]

Otherwise known as 'responding to comments'. I'm not sure what you're doing.