ROH 'William Tell'

[Flosshilde]

That's all right, but it's more about the personal cruelty of a despot

Isn't that what Beethoven's Fidelio is about? Yet everybody goes on about it being a a work about 'freedom' & the defeat of tyrany.

[Flosshilde]

I rather suspect that in any opera production, decisions are made entirely on the work’s artistic merit.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? That's what I would have thought as well, but some here have claimed that the director introduced this particular scene to shock (which might have some artisitic or cultural validity) or simply to sell tickets (not really neccessary in this case as the dates I looked at - before the first performance & hence before the publicity - were pretty much sold out) which would be artistically bankrupt.

[french frank]

Animal Farm is only an anthropomorphic tale about farm animals.
I was obviously mistaken in thinking that it was about something else as well?

Taking vinteuil's point:

Bit of a weasel word, nesspa? Who has authority to determine what 'inheres' in a pertickler work?

The point at issue is not was 'inheres' in a work, but what doesn't. After almost 200 years, one might have expected that someone would have unlocked the secrets of Guillaume Tell by now; Animal Farm, on the other hand, was understood to be allegory and satire from the time it was published. I wouldn't dream of saying it wasn't!

[MrGongGong]

someone would have unlocked the secrets of Guillaume Tell by now

So you seem to be suggesting that there is somehow a "right" way (or set of ways) to see it?
No room for new insight ?
No room for things that are really there but not created intentionally by the composer ?

[teamsaint]

surely this can't be about interpretation of the libretto, since this is clearly open to an endless range of (valid)possibilities, but is about how a particular interpretation or analysis is then portrayed for practical purposes.

[doversoul1]

Why?

and Who says?

Surely the story is meant to be more than an entertaining way of passing the time?
Or do you think that it's the equivalent of watching Cat videos on Youtube?

Check what fable is.
[ed.] as a literary genre and not a computer game

Floss
Sorry, I’m a bit confused. I’ll came back later if the point is still valid.

[Flosshilde]

The point at issue is not was 'inheres' in a work, but what doesn't. After almost 200 years, one might have expected that someone would have unlocked the secrets of Guillaume Tell by now; Animal Farm, on the other hand, was understood to be allegory and satire from the time it was published. I wouldn't dream of saying it wasn't!

This seems to suggest that you believe that a work of art becomes frozen once it is created, that it doesn't acquire layers of meaning as different people & cultures encounter it?

[french frank]

So you seem to be suggesting that there is somehow a "right" way (or set of ways) to see it?
No room for new insight ?
No room for things that are really there but not created intentionally by the composer ?

No. I haven't seen it and therefore am not complaining about the way the director chose to interpret it - if that's what he wanted to do and it was okayed by the 'directorate'.

But it's still perfectly legitimate to criticise it in the sense of weighing up the various factors and saying this doesn't sound like an intelligent insight or even great imagination. More of a 'here-we-go-again' yawn.

[jean]

I hope we haven't forgotten about Reader-Response Theory.

[teamsaint]

I hope we haven't forgotten about Reader-Response Theory.

No chance.
Actually, I had never really thought about Opera and critical theory, not being much of an opera buff, but it is clearly a rich seam.

[doversoul1]

I hope we haven't forgotten about Reader-Response Theory.

Who is the reader in an opera production? Isn’t the audience indirect or secondary reader (I’ve just made these terms up) whose response can be manipulated?

[teamsaint]

Who is the reader in an opera production? Isn’t the audience indirect or secondary reader (I’ve just made these terms up) whose response can be manipulated?

The reader is the person making the critical analysis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author

[french frank]

I hope we haven't forgotten about Reader-Response Theory.

It might have some value of itself, though I prefer to stick with the work, the production and the director's input. Broadly speaking, some people seem to have been so shocked they felt they had to demonstrate their disapproval, other people were cross that this was demonstrated so intrusively, impairing their own appreciation of the production. I presume some people were a bit taken aback but not very, others found the reception sort of interesting and others again thought it was an illuminating idea? Plenty to write up there.

But, no, I'm not into Reader-Response Theory. Is it fundamentally different from Reception Theory? No such thing as Aberrant Decoding, I presume.

[doversoul1]

The reader is the person making the critical analysis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author

So, what is the audience of an opera production ‘reading’? The ‘original’ work or someone else’s ‘critical analysis’?

[doversoul1]

It might have some value of itself, though I prefer to stick with the work, the production and the director's input. Broadly speaking, some people seem to have been so shocked they felt they had to demonstrate their disapproval, other people were cross that this was demonstrated so intrusively, impairing their own appreciation of the production. I presume some people were a bit taken aback but not very, others found the reception sort of interesting and others again thought it was an illuminating idea? Plenty to write up there.

But, no, I'm not into Reader-Response Theory. Is it fundamentally different from Reception Theory? No such thing as Aberrant Decoding, I presume.

Reader response theory is about text, whereas reception theory is more about communication. There is a theory that says text of literature has an inbuilt mechanism to prevent (what I understand to be) Aberrant Decoding.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Act-Reading-Theory-Aesthetic-Response/dp/0801823714/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1435875240&sr=1-1

The theory has been followed up since this publication.

The problem of applying literary theories to opera or any performance arts is that performance arts are re-creative and the audience is responding to the performer/director’s response to the work.