ENO move to Manchester

[Ein Heldenleben]

News just in.

https://www.eno.org/news/eno-and-greater-manchester-announce-plans-for-new-home-in-city-region/

Good news for Manchester maybe. Not so good for me as a three and a half hour rail trip is now 6 and half hours.

and where does this leave Opera North ? - started by Lord Harewood when he was head of ENO I believe .

[Old Grumpy]

News just in.

https://www.eno.org/news/eno-and-greater-manchester-announce-plans-for-new-home-in-city-region/

...and where does this leave Opera North ?

In Leeds, presumably (geographically at least)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Being from the Manchester area, I am pleased about the news. I look with interest at the possibilities. Opera North used to perform at the Palace Theatre in Manchester, but relocated to the Lowry. The Royal Opera had a short-lived project to use the Palace Theatre as a northern base, so I hope this one will be different.

[Pulcinella]

But we need The Northern Powerhouse to come into being first.

No trains back to York after an evening performance in Manchester, which is a disgrace.

[Dave2002]

Seems to be quite a good thing - assuming that there will still be some performances at the Coliseum.

Re the last train thing to York, maybe it depends on the day, but today, for example, there are trains to York even up to midnight, though you might not get there until 3am or later.

There are some fast trains - which take around an hour and a quarter, but looking at today's timetable it also looks as though many trains get cancelled.

I don't know what the rules are these days. There used to be rules that if you had a ticket and were going on a last train which was cancelled, the rail company had to provide appropriate alternative transport, which might in this case be a taxi.

[Old Grumpy]

Being from the Manchester area, I am pleased about the news. I look with interest at the possibilities. Opera North used to perform at the Palace Theatre in Manchester, but relocated to the Lowry. The Royal Opera had a short-lived project to use the Palace Theatre as a northern base, so I hope this one will be different.

Ah, so Opera North have withdrawn to another City anyway*...



* (see my #2 above)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ah, so Opera North have withdrawn to another City anyway*...

Yes. I was born in what is now part of Salford, and that city suffers the same feeling of perceived inferiority as do places like Hove, Gateshead and Bradford.

[nersner]

Hopefully, if Opera North and English National Opera co-operate and co-ordinate their productions, it won't be a zero sum game.

[oddoneout]

More here

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/dec/05/manchester-may-yet-suit-english-national-opera-eno

[Pulcinella]

Seems to be quite a good thing - assuming that there will still be some performances at the Coliseum.

Re the last train thing to York, maybe it depends on the day, but today, for example, there are trains to York even up to midnight, though you might not get there until 3am or later.

There are some fast trains - which take around an hour and a quarter, but looking at today's timetable it also looks as though many trains get cancelled.

I don't know what the rules are these days. There used to be rules that if you had a ticket and were going on a last train which was cancelled, the rail company had to provide appropriate alternative transport, which might in this case be a taxi.

Maybe things have changed: friends certainly drove last year as no train back. And I've never seen a fast train (mind you, we're usually heading to the airport).

[Roslynmuse]

It's bad news for the ENO chorus and orchestra; and I very much doubt if there will be any opera at the Coliseum after this happens. Don't forget that Opera North was originally intended as a sister company to ENO, for the North (strangely enough). Friends in ON are no happier about this than the people I know in ENO. Will it be good for audiences? Difficult to predict. In the end it comes down to how many operas are produced, and how many performances are scheduled. Now that WNO have had to miss Liverpool out of their touring schedule there may be a positive for Merseysiders, but I suspect that ON will simply stop going to the Lowry.

[Dave2002]

Maybe things have changed: friends certainly drove last year as no train back. And I've never seen a fast train (mind you, we're usually heading to the airport).

I only based. my views on the trains from the online times today. There were more cancellations than I would have expected - but I was surprised to see some journeys only taking slightly more than an hour. OK - maybe that's not ultra fast, but it's not necessarily unreasonable. By road the trip could reasonably be expected to take an hour and a half along the M62. There were also some slower trains.

[smittims]

I have happy memories of ENO's season at the palace Theatre, Manchester in 1977 (a splendid Salome conducted by Mark Elder , not yet then at the Halle) and I think this move would work well. I see, however, a long-term threat to Opera North, when the men in grey suits decide anyone North of the Trent who wants to see opera can go to Manchester; unless, of course, we get an opera-friendly government before then.

[Simon B]

I only based. my views on the trains from the online times today. There were more cancellations than I would have expected - but I was surprised to see some journeys only taking slightly more than an hour. OK - maybe that's not ultra fast, but it's not necessarily unreasonable. By road the trip could reasonably be expected to take an hour and a half along the M62. There were also some slower trains.

Train digression:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As it happens, Manchester, Leeds and York are almost unique (outside London, and in many cases, including it) in that is is possible to travel between them late at night. There are effectively services all through the night at 10pm, 11pm, 1am, 2am, 4am...

I've used them in the opposite direction numerous times as an (admittedly painful) way to get back from London leaving as late as 23:30 and getting to Manchester at 04:30 via Leeds. They also mean you can leave Liverpool as late as 23:30 and get back to York, another painful but familiar option. They exist essentially because of Manchester Airport - were it not for that, it'd be like everywhere else in Britain except London, where you can forget any medium distance travel by train after 10pm.

ENO to Manchester:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One of the major puzzles about this move to me is: Where's the putative audience coming from? Anyone here a regular attender at Opera North's visits to The Lowry? If so, nothing further needs said - it's frequently a spacious experience as anyone who went to the recent (rather good) Falstaff and La Rondine perfs can attest. Given that the singing and playing offered up by ON is frequently of similar or higher standard than that of ENO there's not going to be a massive upsurge in interest based on quality alone. Aside from anything else, it's pretty clear that ENO in Manchester won't be the present ENO relocating its orchestra/chorus/backstage team en-masse. There's a reason the residual orchestra in London are being put on 50% (or whatever it is) contracts...

How did the previous excursions by the Royal Opera go? Not very well, in summary. The eventual outcome was determined by insufficient demand from enough punters prepared to pay enough to make the thing viable.

On the available evidence, they're going to need to do a mountain of work in audience development for it not to just fizzle out like previous attempts to do something similar. What, fundamentally, are they going to bring that ON at The Lowry currently doesn't? If there was lots of demand, it seems highly likely ON would put on more performances in Manchester to meet it. What are they doing wrong right now?

It seems to me that what this is mainly going to achieve is to dilute the finite demand within travelling distance between two financially struggling opera companies rather than one. That doesn't sound positive for either. They're both going to have to do something radical in terms of audience development or moving to providing a different sort of work for it not to end badly.

[oddoneout]

Re: audiences, this from the article

...ENO will be making a different kind of work from main-stage operas behind a proscenium arch. Opera North is said to be open to finding ways to grow opera audiences together with ENO.

It is also suggested that the nature of the talks in Manchester has changed to something more positive, so faced with the alternative of just shutting up shop altogether perhaps it is now felt there might be some point in making a stab at the Arts Council "offer"/diktat.

One Manchester arts leader said, “My thinking pivoted from, ‘Go where you like, I’m not bothered,’ to ‘This could be really interesting.’”