Opera Production

[doversoul1]

My knowledge about these matters doesn’t go much further than a quick Google search but this might be useful.

http://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/%22%E6%9C%AC%E6%9B%B2%22

I am sure Mr Iwamoto was a competent player, and yes, traditional music has much smaller market, but more than that, traditional art, including music, in Japan is (I maybe out of date, so don’t quote me) very much a sectarian world which involves complex and strict social protocols you are expected to observe. So if you just want to learn and play the instrument, it may not be the best place to be in.

But we’d better get back to opera. As for that I really did not like the production in which King and Queen are living in a semi-detached and a ‘common’ woman raging because her step-son prefers a young girl.

[MrGongGong]

My knowledge about these matters doesn’t go much further than a quick Google search but this might be useful.

http://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/%22%E6%9C%AC%E6%9B%B2%22

.

hummm

I'm sure your Japanese is perfect mine doesn't exist
BUT I have studied these things and your point about the Honkyoku repertoire is mistaken I'm afraid (you might find some more information here http://www.komuso.com/books/index.pl)


"Classical" music doesn't just mean music from the "Classical" period ! Dictionary definitions don't always help.

but the point (in relation to Opera) really was that for many musicians (and Yoshikazu is an example) who play/sing traditional musics there is little interest in their own country.

[Master Jacques]

You were perfectly clear. That’s why I am saying that that is not kabuki. Sorry to repeat myself but the Ninagawa production (I believe it was performed in the UK) is a modern theatre production that extensively uses kabuki elements. Kabuki is not only a genre and the manner of performance but it also refers to an established body of works (libretto equivalent). Anything other than these works is kabuki-based or kabuki-inspired production and not kabuki.

Where tradition is concerned, Kabuki is just as purist as Noh. For one, kabuki actors are strictly hereditary. A son (not sure how they chose if there are more than one) is trained by father from a very young age in order to follow the exact tradition, which is probably one of the major attractions of kabuki: audience knows exactly what to expect, yet a good performance can still move the audience and offers something new.

The Ninagawa production was highly praised for the effective use of kabuki elements but it was never considered as a kabuki.

You are conflating several things here, and drawn to a false conclusion.

First, Kabuki's "hindu" ability to absorb many different traditions whilst remaining Kabuki is well-established, and the reason why the form continues to have huge vitality in Japan. I suggest you take another look at A.C.Scott's excellent book on the subject. You are right of course to point to the hereditary tradition (similar to our own way with 'theatre families' such as the Redgraves or Wests.) But it is not so exclusive as you state, because the leading actor may choose to "adopt" an outsider as his "son" (as in the film An Actor's Revenge). In any case the business of personnel has nothing at all to do with the catholicism of the materials chosen for Kabuki plays, which are drawn from myth, history and other dramas - including in this case Shakespeare.

The Barbican remounting of the Tokyo production was significantly different in very many respects. It was only 3.5 hours long for starters (the original was six) and it was not performed in three, discrete parts. Nor was the mis-en-scene as hugely impressive or varied as it had been in the Tokyo original on which it was based. If you recall your own visits to the Kabuki Theatre there you will immediately see why - the Japanese stage is staggeringly wide, and deep. The Barbican show was still Kabuki, but heavily adapted to Western tastes. The original - with all due respect - simply was Kabuki.

At least my Japanese friends (and the reviewers) said so. And I am sure you would not claim to know better than them!

[doversoul1]

hummm

I'm sure your Japanese is perfect mine doesn't exist
BUT I have studied these things and your point about the Honkyoku repertoire is mistaken I'm afraid (you might find some more information here http://www.komuso.com/books/index.pl)


"Classical" music doesn't just mean music from the "Classical" period ! Dictionary definitions don't always help.

but the point (in relation to Opera) really was that for many musicians (and Yoshikazu is an example) who play/sing traditional musics there is little interest in their own country.

Oh, I know nothing about Honkyoku repertoire, be it for shakuhachi or kokyuu. The term honkyoku means original music (written for the instrument in the field of Hogaku邦楽) which is nothing to argue about. As your link is of a shakuhachi society, honkyoku here is, obviously for the instrument. Context, Mr GG.

I am not sure what playing traditional instruments has got to do with opera but I think we’ve said enough about these things.

P.S. Unlike the term ‘classical’, the word honkyoku has no other use. (there may be some obscure usage)

[doversoul1]

At least my Japanese friends (and the reviewers) said so. And I am sure you would not claim to know better than them!

I certainly would not make such a claim, and so I shall bow out here, as my knowledge about kabuki does not go much beyond general knowledge. It has been very interesting to read how kabuki is viewed by a foreigner. Many thanks for your details posts.

[DracoM]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/scandal-germany-bayreuth-opera-festival

Might take us in a different direction?
Any forum member there?

[Flosshilde]

Not sure if it will take the discussion in a different direction - back to gthe beginning more likely

[jean]

Opera and Ballet International proudly present an Ellen Kent Production

Verdi Rigoletto.

The masterpiece they tried to ban.

Starring Vladimir Dragos as Rigoletto.

Featuring a magnificent Golden Eagle with a seven-foot wingspan.

A stunning traditional production recapturing the decadence of Renaissance Italy with lavish sets and opulent costumes...

[David-G]

I don't seem to remember an eagle in Rigoletto. But then, perhaps I have never seen a really traditional production.

[Master Jacques]

I don't seem to remember an eagle in Rigoletto. But then, perhaps I have never seen a really traditional production.

Entirely sensibly accoutrement for the Duke to be carrying on his wrist, raptor that he is. I'd be more worried about the "lavish sets and opulent costumes"!

[jean]

Entirely sensibly accoutrement for the Duke to be carrying on his wrist...

...with its seven-foot wingspan?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

...with its seven-foot wingspan?

That's a helluva wrist!

[doversoul1]

A stunning traditional production recapturing the decadence of Renaissance Italy with lavish sets and opulent costumes

Please note: Some scenes contain nudity

A new tradition…

[Sir Velo]

I dare say people were occasionally nude in Renaissance Italy...

[MrGongGong]

I dare say people were occasionally nude in Renaissance Italy...

What's rude about nudity ?