But isn't all opera twaddle? I was asked.

[umslopogaas]

'twaddle', ee oop lad, 'tis t' waddle, 'tis how them in Yorkshire describe the way ducks and overweight humans behave when they need to move, usually to the next batch of un-necessary calories.

But since I'm not from that fine county, I can only say that twaddle might be a sort of cross between twerp and addle: brain-deadening nonsense spouted by an idiot who sounds superficially interesting.

Reality check: isnt that how we describe N*g*l F*rr*ge?

[Serial_Apologist]

My doctor's name is actually Dr Twaddle! Fancy going through life with a name like that! Had it been me, I would have changed it.

[french frank]

a sort of cross between twerp and addle: brain-deadening nonsense spouted by an idiot who sounds superficially interesting.

One suspects when applied to opera it says more about the speaker: "I don't know very much about opera. What I've heard sounds a bit strange. But - if it's twaddle - I don't have to bother with it any more :-) . So, it's twaddle :-/ ."

[Zucchini]

(I think just as a Mr Onion calls himself O'Nion, a halfway intelligent Twaddle would keep the w silent & introduce himself Dr Taigh-Dell. If he can't diagnose that problem, how can you trust him with human bodies?)

[aeolium]

One suspects when applied to opera it says more about the speaker: "I don't know very much about opera. What I've heard sounds a bit strange. But - if it's twaddle - I don't have to bother with it any more :-) . So, it's twaddle :-/ ."

Possibly, but aren't a fair few of the plots of well-known operas what could reasonably be described as twaddle? There are magic flutes, magic bells, magic silver bullets, a Wolf's Glen, all kinds of enchantresses like Alcina who seduces knights then turns them into anything she fancies, the regular appearance of the deus ex machina, all manner of Crusader operas embellished with love stories, the nonsense that are the libretti from the pen of Wilhelmina von Chezy, a dying gypsy's curse which results in a count killing his brother, etc etc. There are women dressed as men and disguises so hopeless that no-one except the myopic characters on stage could fail to see through them. But we put up with all this for the music which redeems all.

[teamsaint]

Possibly, but aren't a fair few of the plots of well-known operas what could reasonably be described as twaddle? There are magic flutes, magic bells, magic silver bullets, a Wolf's Glen, all kinds of enchantresses like Alcina who seduces knights then turns them into anything she fancies, the regular appearance of the deus ex machina, all manner of Crusader operas embellished with love stories, the nonsense that are the libretti from the pen of Wilhelmina von Chezy, a dying gypsy's curse which results in a count killing his brother, etc etc. There are women dressed as men and disguises so hopeless that no-one except the myopic characters on stage could fail to see through them. But we put up with all this for the music which redeems all.

With that lot kicking off, some good music would just be a lovely bonus..

Where do I sign up? And will richard bacon be joining in?

(Cheers aeolium, I'm an instant convert....)

[MrGongGong]

Le Grand Macabre for anyone a bit wacky.

Just saying the names of the characters in polite company will get you into a whole Clarkson of a mess

Some teenagers I worked with said that Opera was all "Viking Hats and Heidi Plaits" (the missing line from a Madness song ?)

[ahinton]

Just saying the names of the characters in polite company will get you into a whole Clarkson of a mess

A Jeremiad thereof, no doubt...

Some teenagers I worked with said that Opera was all "Viking Hats and Heidi Plats" (the missing line from a Madness song ?)

I've never worked with such teenagers but at the same time I once told someone that one of my principal ambitions as a composer is not to write for the stage and, so far, this is one of the few ambitions that I've succeeded in realising, so I'm obviously not the most appropriate person to ask about such things, I guess.

Top Gear: The Opera still might have some mileage, however, given anyone sufficiently determined to pursue such a project; OK, it might well turn out to be something of a car crash of a musical stage work but, if so, it might at least embrace the operatic precedent of What Next?, might it not?...

[french frank]

Possibly, but aren't a fair few of the plots of well-known operas what could reasonably be described as twaddle?

It depends what you mean by 'reasonably', dear boy :-). Are fairy stories 'twaddle'? Is that really what 'twaddle' implies? If one said that many of the stories are make-believe and not intended to present real life ('Cunning Little Vixen'?), does that make them twaddle? If Adès's The Tempest is twaddle (being an opera), is Shakespeare's play also 'twaddle? Is Doctor Who twaddle?

If one were to say operas are quite often 'What if ...? stories where the audience is required to suspend disbelief? Though what about The Death of Klinghoffer? Does it become twaddle because a lot of people break into song together?

[Flosshilde]

I would suspect that anyone who said that opera is a lot of twaddle has no soul and no imagination.

[EdgeleyRob]

The Poisoned Kiss and Hugh The Drover,complete twaddle,but the music...ah wonderful.

[aeolium]

It depends what you mean by 'reasonably', dear boy :-). Are fairy stories 'twaddle'? Is that really what 'twaddle' implies? If one said that many of the stories are make-believe and not intended to present real life ('Cunning Little Vixen'?), does that make them twaddle? If Adès's The Tempest is twaddle (being an opera), is Shakespeare's play also 'twaddle? Is Doctor Who twaddle?

If one were to say operas are quite often 'What if ...? stories where the audience is required to suspend disbelief? Though what about The Death of Klinghoffer? Does it become twaddle because a lot of people break into song together?

No, I was saying that it was the music - the breaking into song - that redeemed stories which in some cases, not all, range from the unconvincing to the absurd. There are also stories rich in symbolism and operas with poetic or witty libretti including works based on great works of literature. But I think there are quite a few where the plot and the libretto are pretty weak, where producers vainly try to assign coherence and significance but where in reality the structure is just a prop for a series of musical set pieces.

[Barbirollians]

La Donna del Lago surely must be a front runner in the twaddle stakes .

[Barbirollians]

A Jeremiad thereof, no doubt...


I've never worked with such teenagers but at the same time I once told someone that one of my principal ambitions as a composer is not to write for the stage and, so far, this is one of the few ambitions that I've succeeded in realising, so I'm obviously not the most appropriate person to ask about such things, I guess.

Top Gear: The Opera still might have some mileage, however, given anyone sufficiently determined to pursue such a project; OK, it might well turn out to be something of a car crash of a musical stage work but, if so, it might at least embrace the operatic precedent of What Next?, might it not?...

Top Gear the Opera ? The mind boggles - Jeremy Clarkson ( played by a countertenor ) sings " I can't stop putting my foot in my mouth " and his other big aria " I am not a racist I promise no matter what I cannot stop saying "

[richardfinegold]

My doctor's name is actually Dr Twaddle! Fancy going through life with a name like that! Had it been me, I would have changed it.

When I was doing my Intern Year in Internal Medicine at Northwestern University, there were two Interns on the Surgical Service with the last names of Slaughter and Butcher. We used to have them paged overhead repeatedly on the Intercom, --"Dr Slaughter and Dr Butcher, please report to ..."-- and then note the reactions of the visitors in the Hallway.
I run into Dr Slaughter frequently now, 30 years later, in my new Practice situation. He still hasn't forgiven us.
Way OT, sorry.