Sir Georg Solti: Not Respected?

[Guest]

I always detect a slight sniffiness when critics discuss Sir Georg: that he doesn't quite belong even in the second tier of 'great' conductors (ie, with Karajan, Bernstein, etc - Furtwangler, Toscanni et al being in the first tier).

Perhaps his sheer commercial success is the problem? Allied with his usually extrovert approach to music-making....

Personally, I think he was a reliable and often inspired conductor: a lot of his recordings are ideal for listeners new to a particular work. I'm currently listening to his Chicago Mahler recordings - they may not be the ones I'd want to take to that desert island, but they're strong and solid throughout. He also benefited from working with the very best engineers and producers in the business.

If this sounds like faint praise, it's not meant to be.

What are your thoughts?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Solti performed a great Alpine Symphony, so that puts him in the top tier for me. Seriously, though, does it matter a jot what critics think? It's interesting to hear their opinions, just as it's interesting to hear anyone else's. But should we let our own opinions be swayed by theirs? I think not.

As for commercial success, it may be a factor, but the same can be said for the other 4 conductors mentioned.

Solti maintained a very high standard of performance throughout his career. Karajan, on the other hand, could be uneven - take his recording of Puccini's Turandot, for example; this is riddled with sloppy ensemble that cannot easily be blamed on the engineers. Toscanni and Bernstein were not to everyone's tastes, but Furtwangler - for me he could be said to occupy the top tier all by himself.

[Ferretfancy]

I saw him conduct quite often, but I find that I don't have very many of his recordings. Leaving the Ring aside, there are some discs that I would not want to be without, his VPO Schubert 9 is surprisingly free from his sometimes aggressive style, and so is the Siegfried Idyll he recorded with them at the same time as the Ring. I still enjoy his Bartok recordings with the LSO, and his Rachmaninov 2 with Julius Katchen, and nobody has done better with the visceral excitement of Salome and Elektra, even though that's not the whole story.

[Richard Tarleton]

I saw him more than any other conductor apart from Haitink in the 1970s when he was with the LPO - he introduced me to several Mahler symphonies among other things. He has left some towering achievements, such as the Decca Ring - in that controversial BAL recently, John Deathridge (I think it was he) gave top billing to Solti's Gotterdammerung. I recently watched (for the umpteenth time) Humphrey Burton's "Golden Ring" film.

His autobiography "Solti on Solti" is interesting and revealing, as much for what it does not say as for what it does, well worth a read. His befriending Strauss shortly before the latter's death was a touching story, as was his conducting the music at Strauss's funeral. Solti had a remarkable life story - he lost valuable years trapped in Switzerland during the war, and had to race to catch up.

Among the gaps are his relationship with Jon Vickers (whom I had the good fortune to see twice in 1972, singing Otello and Aeneas) - which he sums up as follows: "For some reason, Vickers and I had never got on well, which was a pity, since he had an excellent tenor voice [ ] ; we could have done some very good work together". There's a bit more detail in a Vickers biog I looked at. He clearly did not take to Margaret Price (see her Wigmore Hall conversation flagged up the other day on her obit. thread).

A great if flawed conductor - but then what great conductor isn't?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I recently watched (for the umpteenth time) Humphrey Burton's "Golden Ring" film.

The film was savagely cut. Burton had mad a rough cut of around 4 hours, but had to cut it drastically, first of all to 2 and half hours, and then to 90 minutes. It would be interesting to know whether any of the cut material has survived.

[gradus]

He comes in for criticism from orchestral players and seems to have been a difficult man to play for, but for this audience member he and his orchestras gave many memorable concerts and opera performances and I'm certainly not alone in thinking that.

[Mandryka]

The film was savagely cut. Burton had mad a rough cut of around 4 hours, but had to cut it drastically, first of all to 2 and half hours, and then to 90 minutes. It would be interesting to know whether any of the cut material has survived.

I think it would be semi-miraculous if any footage has survived: the beeb had a very draconian policy toward material that had already been broadcast back then - I would imagine the same (with bells on) would apply to footage that didn't 'make the cut'.

[Mandryka]

He comes in for criticism from orchestral players and seems to have been a difficult man to play for, but for this audience member he and his orchestras gave many memorable concerts and opera performances and I'm certainly not alone in thinking that.

I recall one LPO player saying he would 'happily dance on his (Solti's) grave'.

Generally, he seems to have been very tense in rehearsal, but quite relaxed come the actual performance: something that a few of his players genuinely seemed to appreciate.

[StephenO]

Although I never saw him, Solti was the conductor I "grew up" with. As a teenager I built up a small but respectable collection of his LPs, chief amongst which were his recordings of the Mahler symphonies. They were my first experience of Mahler and made such a lasting impression on me that, even today, they're still the performances by which, rightly or wrongly, I judge all others.

[Chris Newman]

I recall one LPO player saying he would 'happily dance on his (Solti's) grave'.

Generally, he seems to have been very tense in rehearsal, but quite relaxed come the actual performance: something that a few of his players genuinely seemed to appreciate.

I heard Solti live on a number of occasions. Some like Verdi's "Don Carlos" at the Proms were incredible experiences and his willingness to show his love for singers and players who did a good job was very apparent. On the other hand a couple of split notes would see a player cut at the applause. Working on TV programmes like "Concerto" with Dudley Moore Solti showed a benign side. I found a lot of his music making very hard driven which was why I loved Haitink for his equally fast but more warm hearted sound. Similarly I am more comfortable with Reginald Goodall's Wagner than Solti's stop/start style. Solti's treatment of Goodall, Margaret Price and many great musicians was unfair and in their cases short-sighted. I watched him rehearse a few times at Covent Garden. He could seethe sometimes but was not as angry and rude as Josef Krips at rehearsals. Krips was chief conductor of the LPO for a while. Years later a violist friend said that they hated him. He was known to swear and spit when he lost his rag. I saw Krips rehearse Die Meistersinger at Covent Garden. The orchestral manager at the the time was the Halle's old trumpeter, Bram Gay, who was playing in that opera. At one point he and Charles Taylor, the leader, threatened to take the orchestra off unless Krips was civil. A friend in that orchestra (ROH) said that they moonlighted as the Brighton Philharmonic Orchestra once a month. Once when their conductor (Herbert Menges) was ill Taylor (who was also the BrightonPO fixer) was told that Josef Krips was available and vetoed him.

After the war Krips' brother, Heinrich, conducted at Sadler's Wells and guested with orchestras as the anglified Henry Cripps . Apparently he was an old sweetie and the musicians loved him.

[Mandryka]

I heard Solti live on a number of occasions. Some like Verdi's "Don Carlos" at the Proms were incredible experiences and his willingness to show his love for singers and players who did a good job was very apparent. On the other hand a couple of split notes would see a player cut at the applause. Working on TV programmes like "Concerto" with Dudley Moore Solti showed a benign side. I found a lot of his music making very hard driven which was why I loved Haitink for his equally fast but more warm hearted sound. Similarly I am more comfortable with Reginald Goodall's Wagner than Solti's stop/start style. Solti's treatment of Goodall, Margaret Price and many great musicians was unfair and in their cases short-sighted. I watched him rehearse a few times at Covent Garden. He could seethe sometimes but was not as angry and rude as Josef Krips at rehearsals. Krips was chief conductor of the LPO for a while. Years later a violist friend said that they hated him. He was known to swear and spit when he lost his rag. I saw Krips rehearse Die Meistersinger at Covent Garden. The orchestral manager at the the time was the Halle's old trumpeter, Bram Gay, who was playing in that opera. At one point he and Charles Taylor, the leader, threatened to take the orchestra off unless Krips was civil. A friend in that orchestra (ROH) said that they moonlighted as the Brighton Philharmonic Orchestra once a month. Once when their conductor (Herbert Menges) was ill Taylor (who was also the BrightonPO fixer) was told that Josef Krips was available and vetoed him.

After the war Krips' brother, Heinrich, conducted at Sadler's Wells and guested with orchestras as the anglified Henry Cripps . Apparently he was an old sweetie and the musicians loved him.

Those familiar with John Culshaw's Ring Resounding and Setting The Record Straight will recall the rather horrible anecdote Culshaw relates about Krips.

[Petrushka]

Like Richard Tareleton I also saw Solti and Haitink more than any conductor (later Abbado). I also had the good fortune to meet Solti on several occasions, most memorably after his final Prom, a Chicago Beethoven 9 which had the longest applause I've ever heard lasting longer than the Adagio! He was always in an expansive mood after a concert and on this occasion he invited the waiting throng back into the RAH where he sat in the artists entrance signing programmes and chatting to everyone. I heard him give some thrilling concerts and it is Solti of whom I think whenever I hear the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra.

He stayed loyal to Decca throughout his entire career and I believe they have treated his legacy and commitment to them very badly. 2012 will be his centenary year and the perfect chance for Decca to belatedly make amends.

[Mandryka]

Like Richard Tareleton I also saw Solti and Haitink more than any conductor (later Abbado). I also had the good fortune to meet Solti on several occasions, most memorably after his final Prom, a Chicago Beethoven 9 which had the longest applause I've ever heard lasting longer than the Adagio! He was always in an expansive mood after a concert and on this occasion he invited the waiting throng back into the RAH where he sat in the artists entrance signing programmes and chatting to everyone. I heard him give some thrilling concerts and it is Solti of whom I think whenever I hear the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra.

He stayed loyal to Decca throughout his entire career and I believe they have treated his legacy and commitment to them very badly. 2012 will be his centenary year and the perfect chance for Decca to belatedly make amends.

Yes, but Decca as Solti knew it has not existed for quite some time now. You can blame Universal for poor marketing decisions and penny-pinching presentation.

Solti conducted Bartok like no one else.

[Alison]

All our lives have to be better for experiencing Solti. There are so few top conductors around that we would be foolish
to disparage any of them.
For myself I come in very much at the tail end of his career. I was never very partial to the Chicago sound while Haitink and Tennstedt surely excelled more at the LPO.
I'm really looking forward to getting the recently issued Elgar 2 DVD.
Two favourite recordings would be the Mahler Resurrection (LSO) and a VHS of Bruckner 7
(Proms 1978). I expect some of you were at that concert. Did Solti ever conduct Bruckner as well as that again ?

[DracoM]

< Leaving the Ring aside >
Quote from an early post which left me completely speechless.

How on earth can you 'leave the Ring aside'??

It was a towering, game-changing recording landmark. For many people it is STILL the benchmark modern Ring cycle, almost all subsequent Rings are judged at least in part against it, the playing of the VPO for Solti is alone worth the ride, and for ANY conductor to have held that project together, driven the vision via many vicissitudes, and produced a reading / recording that shook the Wagner world to its core, is surelty worthy of respect, even awe.

Yes he was v.diff to work with and for, but boy, did those musicians play for him, whether they liked him or not,. Nobody slept with the Skull was on. And we are the richer for his musical life.