Tasteless, vulgar and banal music

[Guest]

A couple of days ago I finally got around to playing a record of Khatchaturian's Third Symphony which includes parts for organ and fifteen trumpets. The above three adjectives came to mind.

We already have threads on music which makes you angry, and music you have to turn off, which have provoked some partisan and heated debate, eg. on the meaning and purpose of Liszt.

Being for the most part a civilised lot, I just wondered whether there was actually a consensus amongst us about our experience of tasteless, vulgar and banal music? istr we had a similar thread on the old board. It needn't necessarily be music which is overblown or kitsch like the Khatchaturian, it can be mawkish and syrupy, but must be in the worst possible taste. If there is enough of a consensus, perhaps some form of ranking could be made and an eventual award given?

[Alison]

Come in the Mahler bashers !

The K Third you mention is a very good example but still good to have at the margins
of one's CD collection.

[rubbernecker]

Come in the Mahler bashers !

No, I don't want to encourage any general Mahler or Liszt bashing. Only very specific pieces of music...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Must we endure these negative Alison Graham threads?

[Bryn]

No, I don't want to encourage any general Mahler or Liszt bashing. Only very specific pieces of music...

Hmm, I was tinking of most of the output of a certain Richard Strauss, but if it has to come down to specifics, Ein Heldenleben will have to surfice.

[That might just get someone's goat.]

[Nick Armstrong]

The problem is that one's person's banal is often another's sublime simplicity. For example, the laboured use of banal scale-based melodies by Tchaikovsky e.g. in that damned Nutcracker pas-de-deux or the ghastly letter scene in Onegin strikes others as the most magical transformation of simple material into sublime art... So I can't suggest them as I know there will be no concensus. I can't believe anyone thinks Lizst's 'Les Préludes' has any qualities which save it from fully deserving the three adjectives which head this thread - but I bet there are some who do

[LeMartinPecheur]

The problem is that one's person's banal is often another's sublime simplicity. For example, the laboured use of banal scale-based melodies by Tchaikovsky e.g. in that damned Nutcracker pas-de-deux or the ghastly letter scene in Onegin strikes others as the most magical transformation of simple material into sublime art... So I can't suggest them as I know there will be no concensus. I can't believe anyone thinks Lizst's 'Les Préludes' has any qualities which save it from fully deserving the three adjectives which head this thread - but I bet there are some who do

Hmm, I for one like the Nutcracker, Tatiana's letter scene and Les Preludes: guess I'd better check out Khatchaturian's 3rd then! 'The Onedin Line' on organ and 15 trumpets - sounds good to me

[Nick Armstrong]

Hmm, I for one like the Nutcracker, Tatiana's letter scene and Les Preludes: guess I'd better check out Khatchaturian's 3rd then! 'The Onedin Line' on organ and 15 trumpets - sounds good to me

QED LeMartin!

Actually, I quite like the sound of Khach 3 too - might have to check it out

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

tasteless, banal and vulgar? .. how could any one resist such music?

[mercia]

perhaps not tasteless or vulgar, but I find Beethoven's opus 80 Fantasy for piano, chorus & orchestra verging on the banal. Perhaps uninspired would be a kinder word. It doesn't seem to do much except alternate between tonic and dominant chords and take quite a long time to do that. It is said to foreshadow the 9th Symphony so I shall think of it as just a dress rehearsal.

[3rd Viennese School]

Lets stick Brahms symphony no.4 mvt 3 here for a change.

(Strangely enough the finale is good!)

And Britten's Simple Symphony.

And Elgar.



3VS

[Bryn]

I still recall the calumny heaped upon the Stokowski recording of the Khachaturian 3rd when it first came out. I've not heard it for years, but remember it being somewhat brash. Despite being wary of anything conducted by Tjeknavorian, especially where the Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra is the band, I have ordered their recording as it seems to be the cheapest alternative, and I do have a soft spot for the 1st Symphony with which the 3rd is coupled.

[Nick Armstrong]

Lets stick Brahms symphony no.4 mvt 3 here for a change.

(Strangely enough the finale is good!)

And Britten's Simple Symphony.

And Elgar.

3VS

I think your chances of consensus are dwindling, rubberknickers....

[french frank]

I'm not sure that I can rise to 'Tasteless, vulgar and banal music' but 'pointless' tends to come to mind with 'The 12 cellists of the BPO'. But that's not a piece of music, is it? Isn't most music redeemable if well played, and most music ruined by 'tasteless, vulgar and banal' performance? And isn't concensus spelled with three s's?

[LeMartinPecheur]

perhaps not tasteless or vulgar, but I find Beethoven's opus 80 Fantasy for piano, chorus & orchestra verging on the banal. Perhaps uninspired would be a kinder word.

Hercule: I disagreee with you, and diametrically so. I'd call Op80 inspired vulgarity, verging on banality!