How Should Live Classical Music Be Presented?

[Beef Oven!]

yes, but as Beefy has pointed out, the people posting on this forum are not the problem. I don't care to have to conductor or others blab either, and that is why I listed the parameters under which they should do so. The issue at hand is why others, who do not post on this forum, and do not listen to classical music in general, may find to peak their interest. If the rest of us have to put up with a few seconds of blather from performers in the interests of promoting a policy that might increase the audience for classical music significantly, then I'm all for it, because expanding support for the music we love will ultimately benefit all of us.

Well put.

[teamsaint]

Well as Beefy says, the issues that there may be around presenting live music don't really affect me personally, as I tend to go to be pretty determined about seeing the things I want to,and have a long (if limited) experience of live classical music. Actually the one thing I really don't like doing is watching music from 100 yards away in a field, which is why I have never been to Glastonbury. In my opinion, that is a poor way to present live music, though it does serve the function of allowing large numbers to attend.
As regards regular classical music concerts, I was really thinking of comments that other people make as regards its presentation. Live music works particularly well when the audience feels thoroughly involved. I think that this may be part of the success of Promming, especially in its evident ability to attract the more casual listener.Prommers , I think feel like an integral part of the event.
No doubt seasoned concert hall goers feel part of the event just by being there. I know I do, but I seldom come away from a concert (many of which struggle to sell lots of tickets) thinking that the concert experience was thought through in a way that will improve uptake among the uncommitted.
Maybe i am thinking about something that can't be done. But in the work that I do, we are always working to find new ways to attract different, wider audiences that we know are out there. We don't always (or even often perhaps) succeed, but we do try, and sometimes when you try, you have successes as well as failures.
Actually, I do like peripheral events around concerts, perhaps because they make you feel just that bit more involved, or that at least somebody is trying to involve you. And of course, if like JLW you don't like them, then you don't have to go.

A lot of people seem to like the pre proms talks. They do make a nice break from queuing (!), but I usually get something from them. Sometimes I even meet and chat to other people about the Prom. Can't be a bad thing , can it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Coincidentally, the latest edition of Tempo includes a review by Martin Anderson of Murray McLachlan's 3CD set of Ronald Stevenson's Piano Music in which this issue is mentioned:

[Stevenson] is a born communicator. The first thing most Musicians - folk, pop, rock, jazz, whatever - do when they come onstage is talk to their audiences; but most classical performers don't: they come on, bow, smile wanly. play, bow again and bugger off, and that's the extent of the interaction. In my experience ( in the later years of his four-and-a-half decade concert career, ended by ill-health in his mid-sixties) Stevenson was never that kind of ivory tower isolationist: the first thing he would do was swivel round on his piano stool to chat to his listeners and bring them on board.

Some performers have the natural ability to do this well - just as some poets can when reading their work aloud. But those whose natural medium of communication is the Music performance itself, and who are gauche and clumsy (or - far, far worse - "chummy") shouldn't feel obliged to ruin their nerves by talking.

[richardfinegold]

Coincidentally, the latest edition of Tempo includes a review by Martin Anderson of Murray McLachlan's 3CD set of Ronald Stevenson's Piano Music in which this issue is mentioned:

[Stevenson] is a born communicator. The first thing most Musicians - folk, pop, rock, jazz, whatever - do when they come onstage is talk to their audiences; but most classical performers don't: they come on, bow, smile wanly. play, bow again and bugger off, and that's the extent of the interaction. In my experience ( in the later years of his four-and-a-half decade concert career, ended by ill-health in his mid-sixties) Stevenson was never that kind of ivory tower isolationist: the first thing he would do was swivel round on his piano stool to chat to his listeners and bring them on board.

Some performers have the natural ability to do this well - just as some poets can when reading their work aloud. But those whose natural medium of communication is the Music performance itself, and who are gauche and clumsy (or - far, far worse - "chummy") shouldn't feel obliged to ruin their nerves by talking.

Agreed. Perhaps an announcer of sorts can do a brief (and I mean brief) intro when performers don't want to handle that.

[Petrushka]

Disagree entirely.

Three examples from numerous experiences.

Boulez was wanting to be somewhere else and had a face like smacked-arse during a post concert talk a few years back - but he added so much to the experience and he took the trouble to spend time with us both pre and post concert.

Elliott Carter was about 97 and understandably had stamina issues and his speech was almost inaudible but was utterly enthralling all the same

Jiri Bělohlávek seemed to be undergoing an acute episode of Asperger's, but made our evening all the same

I think that pre/post concert talks must be compulsory!!!

I, and I think JLW, meant the pre-performance talk from the stage which is often cringe-making.

The pre-(or post-) concert talk can be a real event in itself and I've attended quite a few of the Pre-Prom talks over the years which come into that category. Tippett on his 4th Symphony, Peter Maxwell Davies on his 2nd, Henze on his 8th, Pierre Boulez on one of his programmes which included some of his own music, Anthony Payne on his completion of Elgar 3, Julian Anderson on his own music, all unmissable.

[Beef Oven!]

I, and I think JLW, meant the pre-performance talk from the stage which is often cringe-making.

The pre-(or post-) concert talk can be a real event in itself and I've attended quite a few of the Pre-Prom talks over the years which come into that category. Tippett on his 4th Symphony, Peter Maxwell Davies on his 2nd, Henze on his 8th, Pierre Boulez on one of his programmes which included some of his own music, Anthony Payne on his completion of Elgar 3, Julian Anderson on his own music, all unmissable.

Never been to a Proms pre-talk. Sounds good.

I also attended a Debussy & Ravel concert that Boulez was directing 8 or 9 years ago and he did a pre and interval talk , interviewed by the CEO, sitting on a chair on the stage - not cringe-making at all. Maybe I've just been lucky each time.

[Vile Consort]

Pre-concert talks yes, but talking to the audience between pieces is a real turn-off for me. Those who engage in it tend to be wind-bags and go on for far too long.

I don't normally attend popular music events but the other week I found myself on duty at a festival where various combos took to the stage with guitars, drum-kits and the occasional amplified violin. I was interested to note that they just got up on stage, played their set and got off again. Perhaps classical musicians should take their lead from popular culture rather than trying to turn every concert into a lecture.

[DougP]

I know several people now attending "proper" (dangerous term) concerts after finding the music originally via Andre Rieu...

Not to everyone's taste I know but he's so engaging and if he brings people to other concerts as well??

I agree re talking before music... mostly very dull. If people like a piece they can find out more themselves....

[MrGongGong]

Some people have good communication skills some communicate better just by playing
BUT
the PO faced presentation where its somehow "wrong" to speak to or even acknowledge the existence of the audience is very off-putting even to those who are enthusiasts. Actually the worst offenders in my experience are some electroacoustic composers who shuffle to the diffusion desk and avoid any eye contact whatsoever , the most you get is a nod afterwards

Turning concerts into lectures can be a bad thing
BUT when there are gaps (I've been at events where someone has broken a string and had to leave the stage to get another while everyone sits in embarrassed silence ) saying something is a good idea and enhances the experience.

What I find sometimes depressing is the way in which otherwise engaging and communicative young musicians are discouraged from introducing concerts as somehow that's not what is "done". I suggest next time folks visit the Wigmore hall they have a look at some of the old concert posters downstairs by the Bechstein room.......mr Bartok will play his new piece followed by a comedy song , after which we will be treated to mr Skryabin and his new piano sonata....... it hasn't always been stuffy

[amcluesent]

The format should be a male presenter calmly identifies the pieces to be played, then the live broadcast starts from the hall and we don't hear anything more from the presenter. During the interval, some birdsong can be played. At the conclusion of the concert, after the applause had quietened the presenter wishes listeners good evening.

[MrGongGong]

The format should be a male presenter calmly identifies the pieces to be played, then the live broadcast starts from the hall and we don't hear anything more from the presenter. During the interval, some birdsong can be played. At the conclusion of the concert, after the applause had quietened the presenter wishes listeners good evening.

[Vile Consort]

The format should be a male presenter calmly identifies the pieces to be played, then the live broadcast starts from the hall and we don't hear anything more from the presenter. During the interval, some birdsong can be played. At the conclusion of the concert, after the applause had quietened the presenter wishes listeners good evening.

Even the Third Programme was never that good!

[MrGongGong]

so amcluesent you aren't a mr Petrenko in disguise are you ?