Performance on 3 25 Feb 2011 LSO/Harding

[Cellini]

I'm only going to talk about the Carpenter piece for starters - as the remaining part of the concert is still open to anyone crazy enough to comment!!

Fred & Ginger by Gary Carpenter - approx 5 minutes in length.

I suppose the 5 minute restraint on this piece, apparently commissioned by the LSO, was a good idea! I had visions of them falling about a bit like in some of the Barbican concerts I did with them, unless they have changed and got more serious (professional?) in the last 15 years or so. I do hope not!

I suppose it was rather a fun piece and not meant to be taken too seriously by anyone. I do wish though that composers remembered that there is such a thing as harmony and counterpoint, and did not, as in this case, write everything for whole sections to play in a sort of "unison." The motifs were very repetitive and with the same rhythms being repeated over and again it became rather boring. It was mainly loud all the way through and in the end I did not see much point in it.

It would have been much better in my opinion to have given more solos to wind and brass players, and to have allowed them to bend the pitch and rhythm and be more in keeping with the style of the 1930's. This was meant to be dance music after all. Only elephants come to mind if visualising dancing to this particular piece.

[Daring Tripod]

Well, I must be crazy! I was disappointed with Janine Jansens’ performance as she is a very fine violinist but in this instance
It did not impress me. It may have been to do with the placement of the microphone(s) as some of the tones seem to fade.

But I did enjoy the Wagner and the Strauss. Obviously you did not Cellini?

[Cellini]

Well, I must be crazy! I was disappointed with Janine Jansens’ performance as she is a very fine violinist but in this instance
It did not impress me. It may have been to do with the placement of the microphone(s) as some of the tones seem to fade.

But I did enjoy the Wagner and the Strauss. Obviously you did not Cellini?

Just talking about the Brahms violin concerto, I agree with you, but I don't think it was the mics. The opening tutti was well done and so got the concerto off to a good start, with first and second subjects being well represented, as Brahms certainly knows how.

Unfortunately the violin entry was terribly rushed and had no impact at all. It settled for a very short while but Miss Jansen's playing had big problems, in my view. For me the sound was all wrong, far too fragile for Brahms, with no central core to the sound, a hysterical vibrato, and a thinness that was very unpleasant once she got on the E string.

Unfortunately as the concerto progressed she appeared to be struggling more and more and the technical difficulties which are extremely demanding got the better of her. Some rather stodgy playing from the LSO and lack of moving forward from the conductor made heavy going and makes poor old Brahms give the repeated message that he is a "heavy" composer.

Unable to compete sound wise it was a case of the orchestra being the winner here, and Brahms and Jansens being the looser. It was a pity that the final movement which is really a simple hungarian dance should have been so brutalised by the orchestra and conductor.

I think the sound production problems that miss Jansens has could be corrected with the right sort of application and help, and these problems are also tied up to the many poor patches of intonation, which often means that notes are un-centered (if that's the right word) and sound a little dodgy. One of the first demands that a solo player has to fullfill is good intonation.

I get the distinct feeling that Janine Jansens is a musical player, who has problems in getting that across due to bad habits and technical problems. A year off to sort these problems out could be the making of her as a violinist, and move her up the pecking order.

[johnb]

On the basis of never letting ignorance prevent me from expressing opinions - I thought the Brahms was workmanlike but a little disappointing. But then so much of our expectations are based on memories (actual or unconscious) of a handful of outstanding recordings and it is very unfair to use those as a yardstick for live concerts. Still, in the sublime adagio (surely one of the most beautiful slow movements that Brahms wrote) I missed the almost chamber music quality in the conversations between the violin and the instruments in the orchestra that the best performances have. This might have been due to the balance engineers doing their thing but I felt that the soloist and orchestra didn't have quite the same approach.

I only heard part of the first movement and the last movement has, to me, always been a bit of a romp and an anticlimax after the sublime adagio.

Not sure that I can comment on the Wagner and Strauss but I thought there was some lovely playing from the orchestra.

I'm probably talking nonesense (something I specialise in).

[Cellini]

On the basis of never letting ignorance prevent me from expressing opinions - I thought the Brahms was workmanlike but a little disappointing. But then so much of our expectations are based on memories (actual or unconscious) of a handful of outstanding recordings and it is very unfair to use those as a yardstick for live concerts. Still, in the sublime adagio (surely one of the most beautiful slow movements that Brahms wrote) I missed the almost chamber music quality in the conversations between the violin and the instruments in the orchestra that the best performances have. This might have been due to the balance engineers doing their thing but I felt that the soloist and orchestra didn't have quite the same approach.

I only heard part of the first movement and the last movement has, to me, always been a bit of a romp and an anticlimax after the sublime adagio.

Not sure that I can comment on the Wagner and Strauss but I thought there was some lovely playing from the orchestra.

I'm probably talking nonesense (something I specialise in).

johnb

I think you have already got the hang of this, and your comments about the slow movement (No 2) are extremely apt. I agree with your assessment of this movement and I don't think though that we can blame the recording in this instance.

[Bryn]

... so much of our expectations are based on memories ...

Indeed, John. For me the yardstick is Szeryng/LSO/Monteux.

[french frank]

But then so much of our expectations are based on memories (actual or unconscious) of a handful of outstanding recordings and it is very unfair to use those as a yardstick for live concerts.

And more so if one isn't actually at the the live concert!

[Flosshilde]

So, Cellini (#4), not a performance to persuade me to like Brahms ?

[Cellini]

So, Cellini (#4), not a performance to persuade me to like Brahms ?

No, unfortunately not, but if you hear a fine performance, and there are quite a few, then you may yet fall in love with him!!

(Try the string quartets played by the Alban Berg 4tet or the three violin and piano sonatas. Or the piano trios with Katchen, Suk and Starker - All very wonderful)

[Cellini]

I'm not getting a lot of joy with the reviews, so I will finish off my boring reviews of the two orchestral works.

Wagner - Siegfried Iydll

A very difficult piece. I was a bit dissapointed with the woodwind playing, it was a bit naff at times and lots of intonation problems. Solo horn was OK but the horn section also sounded a bit naff as well, which was a pity. Good strings though.

The problem also with this piece is that Wagner never knew when to stop and when it was enough of a good thing (nothing new here), so it does go on a bit. It went on even more with Mr Harding conducting as he let it drag quite a bit. Best thing with this music is to play it faster than you think it should go, and don't get over-indulgent. I've heard it a performed a lot better.

The Strauss Death and Transfiguration tone poem was probably the most successful piece of the evening. Notice the nice solo from the leader, a centered sound. Don't know who that is these days, but it was a much better sound than we got from Ms Jansens. Altogether better palying from the band and maybe the conductor was ignored more in this big piece.

Generally I did find the recording of the whole concert to be too bass heavy, something I've noticed with Prom broadcasts in the last couple of years. And yet the Barbican is not normally a bass heavy hall, and certainly on the platform the sound is warm, generous and clear. It does vary of course in the hall, depending on your seat. But the mics would have all been on or over the platform, so someone at the Beeb has a strange sense of balance.

In all a rather dissapointing concert, with patchy playing, along with some good moments.

[Petrushka]

Very many thanks for your review of this concert, Cellini. I didn't catch it myself and your review doesn't prompt me to investigate but what does shine through, though, is your experience and insight into playing these works in an orchestra. It's made for very interesting reading and I hope to see more like this in the future.

[Threni]

Carpenter isn't as bad as hesketh! I've met both in person and discussed works with them, I have also attended many world premieres of their work, some are good and some bloody awful ;-)

[Alison]

I am normally quite partial to a slow rendition of the Wagner so must invetigate.

I want affection and glow, not fuss and self importance however ...

[Pianorak]

Cellini - Your review of the Brahms Violin Concerto, for which many thanks, did prompt me to listen to it on BBCiPlayer today. But for your review I would have blamed the thin sound of the solo violin on microphone placing. I know too little about the violin to comment further. A couple of questions though: Would another soloist playing the very same instrument have been able to produce a richer sound? Is it perhaps just nerves which can be responsible for producing such an unsatisfactory, not to say unpleasant, sound?

[johnb]

Out of curiosity I've just had a listen to the recording of the Brahms Violin Concerto from which I first got to know the piece - back in the 60s. I know styles have changed over the decades but, as a contrast to the Jansens/Harding, this is the slow movement:

http://www.box.net/shared/ic0mxzgk1x