BBC Phil under Juanjo Mena play Elgar, Brahms & Burgess on Saturday 28th September

[Stanfordian]

I'm looking forward to attending what promises to be a fasinating concert at the Bridgewater on Saturday evening.

Anthony Burgess: A Manchester Overture
Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 1
Elgar: Symphony No. 1

BBC Philharmonic under Juanjo Mena with Stephen Hough as soloist.

A note of warning. Man Utd are playing at home, kick off 3.00, so the traffic coming out of Old Trafford and around the city centre etc. will extremly heavy from around 5.00pm.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Splendid programme - this is the first programming of any Burgess that I've ever seen in this country. Presumably, as it's a Beeb orchestra, it'll be broadcast. (Or will they prefer to broadcast Music from the film of A Clockwork Orange? )

[Stanfordian]

I felt the performance of the Elgar First Symphony by Juanjo Mena and the BBC Philharmonic was simply stunning.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Presumably, as it's a Beeb orchestra, it'll be broadcast. (Or will they prefer to broadcast Music from the film of A Clockwork Orange? )

Broadcast Live, and available on the i-Player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03br090/Radio_3_Live_in_Concert_BBC_Philharmonic_Burgess_Brahms_Elgar/

... the Burgess was enjoyable and somewhat interesting; sort-of RVW/Tippett/Mathias with a squeeze of Walton here and there in its sound world. Rather Mr Polly-ish for the composer of A Clockwork Orange. No revalations of a neglected Great, but certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I felt the performance of the Elgar First Symphony by Juanjo Mena and the BBC Philharmonic was simply stunning.

[Stanfordian]

Broadcast Live, and available on the i-Player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03br090/Radio_3_Live_in_Concert_BBC_Philharmonic_Burgess_Brahms_Elgar/

... the Burgess was enjoyable and somewhat interesting; sort-of RVW/Tippett/Mathias with a squeeze of Walton here and there in its sound world. Rather Mr Polly-ish for the composer of A Clockwork Orange. No revalations of a neglected Great, but certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire.

Greetings ferneyhoughgeliebte, My report runs along very similar lines. I heard influences of of Bridge, Vaughan Williams and Ireland infused with a splash of Walton. Not life changing but certainly worth hearing.

[edashtav]

A Manchester Overture, What Would Cardus Have Said?

... the Burgess was enjoyable and somewhat interesting; sort-of RVW/Tippett/Mathias with a squeeze of Walton here and there in its sound world. Rather Mr Polly-ish for the composer of A Clockwork Orange. No revelations of a neglected Great, but certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire.

I was happy to sing along with ferney but I'm afraid that I must end by marching to another drummer. "certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire" ? Pace, ferney, it isn't and I'll attempt to sketch why:
1. It has no individuality - I'd add Moeran, Bax, Alwyn and Hindemith to discernible influences;
2. It has plenty of ideas but they meander; they have not been forged and tempered; they remain at the amorphous "cowpat" stage; fed into an anaerobic cowpat digester they'd produce great gas and the excess water would drain away;
3. It sounds as if commissioned for R.3's Film Music Season;
4. There's a somewhat desperate, obvious and cloying reliance on sequential "development";

Not without some value, especially from the occasional changes of direction and one brash outburst of brass that was by Havergal Brian (his unwritten Potteries Ovt.?) Worth putting onto CD - the type of disc one is pleased to have on the shelf but which one returns to very infrequently.

Frankly, ferney, there are 100 forgotten British overtures that demand a place in repertoire before this Macunian one.
(I'll leave it to others to list them!)

[Hornspieler]

I was happy to sing along with ferney but I'm afraid that I must end by marching to another drummer. "certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire" ? Pace, ferney, it isn't and I'll attempt to sketch why:
1. It has no individuality - I'd add Moeran, Bax, Alwyn and Hindemith to discernible influences;
2. It has plenty of ideas but they meander; they have not been forged and tempered; they remain at the amorphous "cowpat" stage; fed into an anaerobic cowpat digester they'd produce great gas and the excess water would drain away;
3. It sounds as if commissioned for R.3's Film Music Season;
4. There's a somewhat desperate, obvious and cloying reliance on sequential "development";

Not without some value, especially from the occasional changes of direction and one brash outburst of brass that was by Havergal Brian (his unwritten Potteries Ovt.?) Worth putting onto CD - the type of disc one is pleased to have on the shelf but which one returns to very infrequently.

Frankly, ferney, there are 100 forgotten British overtures that demand a place in repertoire before this Macunian one.
(I'll leave it to others to list them!)

I have only just got round to listening to this broadcast.

Magnificent Elgar! Brilliantly prepared and performed.

This is a work for which I have a special affection. I first encountered it in my first term at the Royal Academy of Music in 1949.
Subsequently I played in a stunning performance under Silvestri and, when I was with the BBC in Bristol, I managed to secure the original 15ips recording on a NAB spool before it could be sent off for destruction with hundreds of other tapes that would be beyond value if some idiot had not decided to have a clearout, as they were taking up too much room.
So I now have Silvestri's and also Andrew Davis conducting the BBC Symphony orchestra. (he missed a few tricks IMO - its more like a straight run through)

I will certainly keep this performance which, for me, is up with the best.

I won't bother to comment on the first half of the concert. The less said about it, the better.

HS

[Stanfordian]

I was happy to sing along with ferney but I'm afraid that I must end by marching to another drummer. "certainly worthy of a regular place in the repertoire" ? Pace, ferney, it isn't and I'll attempt to sketch why:
1. It has no individuality - I'd add Moeran, Bax, Alwyn and Hindemith to discernible influences;
2. It has plenty of ideas but they meander; they have not been forged and tempered; they remain at the amorphous "cowpat" stage; fed into an anaerobic cowpat digester they'd produce great gas and the excess water would drain away;
3. It sounds as if commissioned for R.3's Film Music Season;
4. There's a somewhat desperate, obvious and cloying reliance on sequential "development";

Not without some value, especially from the occasional changes of direction and one brash outburst of brass that was by Havergal Brian (his unwritten Potteries Ovt.?) Worth putting onto CD - the type of disc one is pleased to have on the shelf but which one returns to very infrequently.

Frankly, ferney, there are 100 forgotten British overtures that demand a place in repertoire before this Macunian one.
(I'll leave it to others to list them!)

I agree. The Burgess overture was ordinary to say the least.

[amateur51]

Frankly, ferney, there are 100 forgotten British overtures that demand a place in repertoire before this Macunian one.
(I'll leave it to others to list them!)

But how many were written by the same quality of imagination that gave us Earthly Powers, The Enderby series, as well as A Clockwork Orange?

[edashtav]

But how many were written by the same quality of imagination that gave us Earthly Powers, The Enderby series, as well as A Clockwork Orange?

Granted - but powers of imagination are not immutable, on transfer from one art-form to another they may be trammelled by lack of technique and knowledge. This is the case with Burgess - a master craftsmen in the world of letters but an enthusiastic, semi-skilled amateur when composing music.

[ahinton]

Granted - but powers of imagination are not immutable, on transfer from one art-form to another they may be trammelled by lack of technique and knowledge. This is the case with Burgess - a master craftsmen in the world of letters but an enthusiastic, semi-skilled amateur when composing music.

I know that we're only discussing his Manchester Overture here but I do think that it might be as well for you to hear or study some of his other works - the three symphonies, the sonata for cello and piano, the piano concerto and the violin concerto, for example - before jumping to such a negative conclusion about his work as a whole; sure, they're not much in comparison to his work as a man of letters and no one would suggst that there's a great unrecognised British composer there, but I think that, on the whole, the best of his music marks him out as a little more than a mere "enthusiastic, semi-skilled amateur" as a composer. He once said that what he really wanted to be was a composer (which of itself does not of course make you one or enable you to become one even if you have the literary talents that he possessed); he even described his work as a literary artists as "failed composer".

[edashtav]

I know that we're only discussing his Manchester Overture here but I do think that it might be as well for you to hear or study some of his other works - the three symphonies, the sonata for cello and piano, the piano concerto and the violin concerto, for example - before jumping to such a negative conclusion about his work as a whole; sure, they're not much in comparison to his work as a man of letters and no one would suggst that there's a great unrecognised British composer there, but I think that, on the whole, the best of his music marks him out as a little more than a mere "enthusiastic, semi-skilled amateur" as a composer. He once said that what he really wanted to be was a composer (which of itself does not of course make you one or enable you to become one even if you have the literary talents that he possessed); he even described his work as a literary artists as "failed composer".

You're right to urge caution - I was reacting, initially, to the idea that this Manchester Overture deserves a foothold in repertoire. I maintain that it does not although I concede it deserves to be "available".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I was reacting, initially, to the idea that this Manchester Overture deserves a foothold in repertoire. I maintain that it does not although I concede it deserves to be "available".

???

Qué?

[EdgeleyRob]

I listened earlier via i player.

I thought the Manchester Overture was ok,as has been mentioned virtually every British composer you care to mention seems to be in the music.

Enjoyed the monster Brahms Concerto too.

The highlight was the superb Elgar 1.
The heart wrenchingly nostalgic slow movement especially,was beautifuly played.
That lump to the throat moment when the slow movement starts even before the previous one has finished,you know where we hear that long held note above the last pizzicato,was perfect.