Verdi Requiem

[johnb]

In the 2006 EIF the BBC broadcast the Beethoven symphonies outstandingly conducted by Mackerras in a series of nine programmes (if I recall correctly), each pairing a Beethoven and a Bruckner symphony.

[Flosshilde]

Perhaps this year they felt that there were fewer orchestral concerts (& operas) worth recording?

[DracoM]

I have a feeling that there used to be more broadcasts from the EIF evening concerts (I mean going back several years before the years listed by David-G), but I can't put an average figure on it. At least there were quite a few broadcasts from the Queens Hall this year. I agree that it is a great pity we do not hear more from the EIF - and I also wish they would push the boat out and make a recording of one of the drama performances, e.g. Beckett's All That Fall, nearly 60 years after its broadcast on the Third Programme.

Could be to do with contractual terms/obligations i.e repeats etc included in the original fee structure?

Just an idle thought.

[Hornspieler]

Could be to do with contractual terms/obligations i.e repeats etc included in the original fee structure?

Just an idle thought.

The BBC staff orchestras receive their salaries for broadcasting their work. An outside organisation or orchestra mounting a concert or recital has to receive extra payment from the BBC if their concert/performance is broadcast. Every time a broadcast is repeated, a repeat fee is paid to each person involved in that original performance. The orchestra involved would submit a list to the BBC of those who took part in the original performance and they would each receive payment if the programme is repeated - however long ago the original broadcast took place.
I know this because I have been on both sides of this exercise and it can be a bit of a headache. (I can't remember what happens if a player has died or cannot be located).
So if the BBC decide to broadcast a concert given in, say, The Anvil, Basingstoke by the Bournemouth Symphony orchestra, they will have to pay an initial broadcast relay fee to every player taking part (including the conductor and soloists, of course) and they would also have to pay a "facilities fee" to the owners of the Hall for the use of their premises.

The Edinburgh International Festival would, presumably, fall under these regulations so, for instance, broadcasting the Verdi requiem last week would not involve additional fees for the BBC Scottish Symphony orchestra but would involve quite a large fee for the Chamber orchestra of Europe ( or the Royal National Scottish Orchestra, for instanceor or similar groups) taking part in the festival.

I suspect that this goes a long way to explain the paucity of relays from the Edinburgh International Festival, whereas for the Proms, the considerable use of all the BBC staff orchestras and the much greater income generated by receipts in the Royal Albert Hall would reduce a lot of that expense.

Sorry to be so long winded, but it is a complicated system which is a headache for all involved in administering it.

I think I'll go back to bed!

HS

[Flosshilde]

An outside organisation or orchestra mounting a concert or recital has to receive extra payment from the BBC if their concert/performance is broadcast. Every time a broadcast is repeated, a repeat fee is paid to each person involved in that original performance.

I wonder how the iPlayer fits into that - if someone listens on that is that a 'repeat performance' - in which case there could be hundreds.

The Edinburgh International Festival would, presumably, fall under these regulations so, for instance, broadcasting the Verdi requiem last week would not involve additional fees for the BBC Scottish Symphony orchestra but would involve quite a large fee for the Chamber orchestra of Europe ( or the Royal National Scottish Orchestra, for instanceor or similar groups) taking part in the festival.

I suspect that this goes a long way to explain the paucity of relays from the Edinburgh International Festival, whereas for the Proms, the considerable use of all the BBC staff orchestras and the much greater income generated by receipts in the Royal Albert Hall would reduce a lot of that expense.HS

Yes, but ... I suspect (without having counted) that there are far more non-BBC orchestra concerts in the Proms than there are concerts in the EIF (not counting the Queen's Hall series, which are broadcast, live). So the BBC will be paying more to broadcast those than they would to broadcast the EIF concerts. They have to have the broadcasting/recording equipment there anyway, for the QH concerts & the Usher Hall concerts they do record (& it only has to come from Glasgow). I realise that there is an expectation that all the Proms concerts are broadcast live, but perhaps they could look at the programmes & decide that a pretty run-of-the-mill concert at the RAH should be recorded for afternoon broadcast & a more interesting EIF concert be broadcast in the evening instead.

[aeolium]

I realise that there is an expectation that all the Proms concerts are broadcast, but perhaps they could look at the programmes & decide that a pretty run-of-the-mill concert at the RAH should be recorded for afternoon broadcast & a more interesting EIF concert be broadcast in the evening instead.

Or, as others have suggested, shorten the Proms season to end two weeks earlier in August so that it is possible to broadcast more EIF concerts live. After all, the Proms season has not always been fixed at this length and timescale.

[Sir Velo]

Or, as others have suggested, shorten the Proms season to end two weeks earlier in August so that it is possible to broadcast more EIF concerts live. After all, the Proms season has not always been fixed at this length and timescale.

Nice idea, but I can't ever see the BBC willingly forsaking all that revenue. Still, no reason why recorded EIF concerts can't be broadcast throughout the Autumn.

[aeolium]

Nice idea, but I can't ever see the BBC willingly forsaking all that revenue. Still, no reason why recorded EIF concerts can't be broadcast throughout the Autumn.

Although then the BBC would have the extra cost of recording the EIF concerts to be broadcast, including fees/rights etc, without losing the cost of the Proms concerts. Perhaps if some of the more humdrum Proms concerts were lost from the season the ticket revenue loss would be contained, and there is a certain amount of fixed revenue from season-ticket holders (not great, admittedly).

[Sir Velo]

Although then the BBC would have the extra cost of recording the EIF concerts to be broadcast, including fees/rights etc, without losing the cost of the Proms concerts. Perhaps if some of the more humdrum Proms concerts were lost from the season the ticket revenue loss would be contained, and there is a certain amount of fixed revenue from season-ticket holders (not great, admittedly).

True, but as has been remarked, the "humdrum" concerts would mainly be by the BBC's own orchestras, who are already salaried; so the only savings would be hall hire and sound engineers' costs etc (many of whom are also probably salaried). It's almost certainly in a long term arrangement with the RAH for hall hire and it would, therefore, be hard, nay impossible, to negotiate a reduction. Given that the RAH would then need to raise its revenue to cover its costs, it would probably charge the BBC more for the shorter period of concerts, thereby negating much of the savings. Moreover, given the absence of similarly sized halls in London, the RAH probably has the BBC over the proverbial barrel on this one.

[Hornspieler]

Nice idea, but I can't ever see the BBC willingly forsaking all that revenue. Still, no reason why recorded EIF concerts can't be broadcast throughout the Autumn.

But that would cost the BBC a lot more money.

I have no idea how iPlayer would fit in here. There was no such technology when the regulations, for the benefit of participating non BBC artists, were drawn up.

You may be interested to know that all music broadcast must be reported to the Performing Rights Society and such a report is sent after every broadcast containing music. The PRS will then inform the Publishers or Copyright holders, if such exist and will charge the BBC for funds handed over to the recipients.
A member of BBC staff is employed almost exclusively to gather the relelevant information and forward it to the PRS.

I hope that clarifies the situation.

Clear as mud, now, you might say.

HS (see my post #20 on this thread).

[Sir Velo]

But that would cost the BBC a lot more money.

I agree with you. What I perhaps should have said, is that there is no valid argument other than cost, for not broadcasting more of the EIF, given that the BBC has a commitment to broadcasting recitals and concerts throughout the year. It would also be a good way of demonstrating that the corporation is not London-centric and that the EIF is considered a significant festival in its own right.

[amateur51]

I agree with you. What I perhaps should have said, is that there is no valid argument other than cost, for not broadcasting more of the EIF, given that the BBC has a commitment to broadcasting recitals and concerts throughout the year. It would also be a good way of demonstrating that the corporation is not London-centric and that the EIF is considered a significant festival in its own right.

Very good point, Sir Velo

[Flosshilde]

Still, no reason why recorded EIF concerts can't be broadcast throughout the Autumn.

But as the Po3 concerts are now live (something some, if not most, members of the Board wanted - me included) those recording would be relegated to the Ao3 slot, chopped up, & not easily available to people working (or otherwise busy) during the day (& don't talk about iPlayer, which is useless for those whose broadband connection is poor - & anyway, when can you listen to it if you're busy listening to the Po3 concerts ?)

[johnb]

But as the Po3 concerts are now live (something some, if not most, members of the Board wanted - me included) those recording would be relegated to the Ao3 slot, chopped up, & not easily available to people working (or otherwise busy) during the day (& don't talk about iPlayer, which is useless for those whose broadband connection is poor - & anyway, when can you listen to it if you're busy listening to the Po3 concerts ?)

Well, I always thought that the idea of having 100% live concerts in the weekday evenings was going to be a mixed blessing and would greatly restrict what concerts could be broadcast. For me the ideal would be mostly live but with "as live" concerts mixed in when appropriate. (After all, it was the studio presentation that most people objected to.)

[aeolium]

Well, I always thought that the idea of having 100% live concerts in the weekday evenings was going to be a mixed blessing and would greatly restrict what concerts could be broadcast. For me the ideal would be, mostly live but with "as live" concerts mixed in when appropriate. (After all, it was the studio presentation that most people objected to.)

I agree, johnb. I don't see any problem with having "as live" concerts in the evening. The three EIF ones we heard this week were excellent, I thought. What I hate is having bits of concerts put together in a mixture as is happening more frequently with the lunchtime concert and Ao3.