Sibelius/lutoslawski cbso/gardner/lucy crowe 19:30 20/06/13

[EdgeleyRob]

I must be the only person on here who doesn't 'get' Sibelius (and Lutoslawski),must try harder.

[Bryn]

I must be the only person on here who doesn't 'get' Sibelius (and Lutoslawski),must try harder.

Possibly as regards Sibelius, but I too have never really warmed to Lutoslawski's muse.

[EdgeleyRob]

Possibly as regards Sibelius, but I too have never really warmed to Lutoslawski's muse.

Well that makes me feel a little better Bryn.
Interesting that Sargent quote about Sibelius 1 & 2,the two symphonies from which I can just about get any enjoyment.

[salymap]

Well that make s me feel a little better Bryn.
Interesting that Sargent quote about Sibelius 1 & 2,the two symphonies from which I can just about get any enjoyment.

yes Rob,because they were composed as Tchaikovsky and countless others did. Sir Malcolm was a very good Sibelius conductor and visited the composer several times. HS thinks highly of him and he knows what's what. I too love the first two and they are no effort to follow. Perhaps the others aren't quite so easy. I haven't listened to the recent Lutoslawski - too many hearing problems for new music [to me] now.

I think the gist of it is that the later symphonies wre more like jigsaw puzzles where bits reappeared and were fitted together. For goodness sake, not MS's words just my silly way I saw it

[jayne lee wilson]

Sibelius 3 can seem almost too effortless can't it? After 2 Romantic epics, and followed by tragedy struggle and triumph in 4 & 5...then the serene but shadowed ambiguities of 6, an Apollonian, otherworldly 7th...

The 3rd has a jaunty, almost Haydnesque opening, a gentle, folksy, landscape evocation in the andantino (but which already has those otherworldly voices softly interrupting it in the divisi strings, a breathless moment); a playful scherzo (with subtle references back to the earlier movements and forth to the chorale) that almost loses its head before the sublime chorale emerges for the final affirmation.

Very much an example of the art that conceals art, it does depend on being firmly projected in performance; the very brevity and classical poise of the piece seems to lead some conductors into underplaying the last pages, which really need to be driven home, rhythmically and sonorously.

Rattle and Sanderling do this well, and Davis in Boston; but for a really vivid antidote to anonymity try Rozhdestvensky/Moscow RSO. The first movement is almost ideally paced & phrased, but The tempo of the andantino is surprising (or even alarming..), it's VERY con moto. But the colourful, characterful winds and hefty, resonant doublebass pizzicati will put your ears on their toes and make them smile.
Then Rozh underplays the scherzo slightly, to prepare for a much grander, slower finale than you usually hear. There's not much mystery or magic here as the chorale emerges, it's legato largamente! Russian trumpets shine out from the last emphatic chords (for those who hate it - not wobbly on this occasion).

I'm not sure that the 3rd movement QUITE works this way (there's a little textural muddle too), but it makes vivid musical sense and does compel attention!

[teamsaint]

can't refuse an offer like that Jayne. Beautiful.
Hopefully its this one , available on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1mbBnh_vA

whats not to love about Sibelius 3 anyway ?!