Truncating the applause

[Guest]

I listened to the Britten concert from the Concertgebouw on Monday and enjoyed it, particularly the Spring Symphony. It was quite an event and I see it is the subject of a separate thread. It sounded as if the audience in the hall enjoyed it too - certainly from the enthusiastic applause, or from as much of it as we were allowed to hear. Which brings me to my point - why were we not allowed to hear all of the applause until the very last clap? Instead we had......."with the applause not in any danger of ceasing any time soon, I'm going to hand you back now to John Shea in Broadcasting House in London".... and John Shea played an advert for the Aldeburgh Festival, plugged the next scheduled programme and then put on a couple of CDs to fill the gap until Night Waves at 10 pm.

I have always felt it was rude to leave the hall before the applause had ended. I remember as a young boy going to concerts with my father who pointed out the balding man in an aisle seat near the front of the stalls who got up immediately the applause begin and left. I was told he was the eminent music critic of a national newspaper (I forget which one) off to file his piece on the concert for the next day's edition. He had an excuse. The rest of stayed and showed our appreciation.

We listen to the live broadcasts instead of being there. Enthusiastic applause at the end of the concert is, for me, part of the live performance. It is not as if the BBC had to drag us away from the hall. I could understand if it were 9.59 pm and the Night Waves producer was pacing anxiously up and down. But it wasn't. We were being called out of the hall only to listen to John Shea playing CDs. We could have stayed longer and John could have played a different CD. He could have had half a dozen pieces of music lined up, all of different lengths so he was ready to play whichever of them fitted whatever gap was left.

This was not a one off. It is now the norm for Radio 3 live broadcasts. More applause please. In fact all of the applause please and make the live broadcast more of an occasion. (But Monday's was still a cracking concert.)

[Serial_Apologist]

I listened to the Britten concert from the Concertgebouw on Monday and enjoyed it, particularly the Spring Symphony. It was quite an event and I see it is the subject of a separate thread. It sounded as if the audience in the hall enjoyed it too - certainly from the enthusiastic applause, or from as much of it as we were allowed to hear. Which brings me to my point - why were we not allowed to hear all of the applause until the very last clap? Instead we had......."with the applause not in any danger of ceasing any time soon, I'm going to hand you back now to John Shea in Broadcasting House in London".... and John Shea played an advert for the Aldeburgh Festival, plugged the next scheduled programme and then put on a couple of CDs to fill the gap until Night Waves at 10 pm.

I have always felt it was rude to leave the hall before the applause had ended. I remember as a young boy going to concerts with my father who pointed out the balding man in an aisle seat near the front of the stalls who got up immediately the applause begin and left. I was told he was the eminent music critic of a national newspaper (I forget which one) off to file his piece on the concert for the next day's edition. He had an excuse. The rest of stayed and showed our appreciation.

We listen to the live broadcasts instead of being there. Enthusiastic applause at the end of the concert is, for me, part of the live performance. It is not as if the BBC had to drag us away from the hall. I could understand if it were 9.59 pm and the Night Waves producer was pacing anxiously up and down. But it wasn't. We were being called out of the hall only to listen to John Shea playing CDs. We could have stayed longer and John could have played a different CD. He could have had half a dozen pieces of music lined up, all of different lengths so he was ready to play whichever of them fitted whatever gap was left.

This was not a one off. It is now the norm for Radio 3 live broadcasts. More applause please. In fact all of the applause please and make the live broadcast more of an occasion. (But Monday's was still a cracking concert.)

I remember a broadcast performance of Waltons second symphony. The applause went on for ten minutes. Broadcasters have to be sensible about this.

[Flosshilde]

Agreed. If I was at a concert & hadn't been particularly excited by a performance I would have no hesitation in leaving while others were clapping & cheering. (and sometimes one has a train to catch)

[Sir Velo]

I'm with the OP on this one. Moreover, even worse is when we leave a concert before the encore(s). This is totally inexcusable.

Sustained applause lasting for more than 3-4 minutes is extremely rare. On the occasions it happens, there is obviously a reason - a particularly fine performance; a memorable event etc. Furthermore, I see no reason why the radio audience shouldn't get the applause because a few rancorous individuals haven't enjoyed the performance, or have left insufficient time to get public transport without leaving in unseemly haste!

[french frank]

I suppose it's the dreaded move from "No fixed points" to "All fixed points". The concert must end by 10pm for Night Waves; that must end by 10.45 for The Essay; then it's the final Jazz/World/LJ at 11pm (though, being live, the later programmes - N/W and LJ - used to absorb a bit of overrun); and with 24-hour broadcasting TTN has to kick in on time because of its European relay. In all honesty it was even more annoying when TTN started with an opera or a symphony/concerto and lost the beginning because of an overrun.

R3 doesn't these days dare clip a bit off LJ or the jazz because a classical concert has overrun slightly ...

[Sir Velo]

Surely the whole point surrounding the fanfare of bringing back "live" concerts is to experience the additional atmosphere of an event which, by definition, includes the reactions of the audience. Otherwise, we might as well go back to having recorded "live" concerts.

In this instance, as Wallace points out, the concert concluded well before the next scheduled programme and, therefore, no good reason why we should not have remained to continue the illusion of being there.

[french frank]

Surely the whole point surrounding the fanfare of bringing back "live" concerts is to experience the additional atmosphere of an event which, by definition, includes the reactions of the audience. Otherwise, we might as well go back to having recorded "live" concerts.

I'm not defending it - simply offering an explanation for the mindset that bundles us off prematurely. Don't want to miss the train or there'll be hell to pay . Then there's the almost universal practice of 'stripping': having the same programme on at the same time every day so that listeners won't get 'lost'. I saw a figure that 55% of Late Junction listeners don't listen to the concert - I imagine many tune in to R3 solely for LJ and nothing else, and they don't want to have their regular nightly listening delayed by an unpredictable Radio 3 schedule.

But I think they could come up with better solutions - it's just that 'everyone does it' now.

[pilamenon]

An even greater reason for truncating applause than starting the next programme on time is to allow for the trails and schedule run-downs referred to by Wallace in his message. I know concerts that have over-run, but they still found time for more trails and what's coming up blurb before starting the next programme. Trails are now the most crucial components of the schedule - constant, intrusive and far and away the most irritating aspect of Radio 3 (but also every other BBC radio station and TV channel, for that matter).

I agree with the original post, I would prefer it if they stayed with concerts for all the applause and any encores. However, things have improved so much since the days of the dismal Performance on 3.

[Serial_Apologist]

An even greater reason for truncating applause than starting the next programme on time is to allow for the trails and schedule run-downs referred to by Wallace in his message. I know concerts that have over-run, but they still found time for more trails and what's coming up blurb before starting the next programme. Trails are now the most crucial components of the schedule - constant, intrusive and far and away the most irritating aspect of Radio 3 (but also every other BBC radio station and TV channel, for that matter).

I agree with the original post, I would prefer it if they stayed with concerts for all the applause and any encores. However, things have improved so much since the days of the dismal Performance on 3.

Then I will go for a compromise with you, pilamenon: fade out any remaining applause 30 seconds before the following scheduled programme is due to start on time, then commence the next programme without intervening trails, just a short announcement.

[RobertLeDiable]

I think this complaint is faintly ridiculous. I have been to plenty of concerts where the applause has gone on for more than five minutes, and I fail to see why including all of that would enhance the 'live' aspect of the programme for the radio listener. Obviously you don't want it cut off very quickly unless an over-run threatens the next programme, but if the presenter has to carry on describing yet another curtain call for too long it becomes tedious. It should be a matter of judgement when to fade out, not a rule that all the applause must be heard however long. The same applies to encores - sometimes they're worth hearing, sometimes not.

Apart from that, as far as I'm aware applause has been faded out before it stops for years on Radio 3 - and if you listen to almost any foreign radio station it's normally faded out even more quickly than is usual on R3.

[Tom Audustus]

I cannot see any reason not to fade applause after 30 seconds. Seems sensible. After all, it is radio and there are other programmes that have to start on time.

In the good old days when the schedule was flexible there always seemed to be a certain amount of spare time following a live broadcast that would have to be filled by some short or not so short piece of piano music.

[french frank]

fade out any remaining applause 30 seconds before the following scheduled programme is due to start on time, then commence the next programme without intervening trails, just a short announcement.

Aaaaarrrrgh! Heretic!

Plenty of contemplation space seems an admirable idea. Not that I'm grumbling personally .........

[Petrushka]

I think this complaint is faintly ridiculous. I have been to plenty of concerts where the applause has gone on for more than five minutes, and I fail to see why including all of that would enhance the 'live' aspect of the programme for the radio listener. Obviously you don't want it cut off very quickly unless an over-run threatens the next programme, but if the presenter has to carry on describing yet another curtain call for too long it becomes tedious. It should be a matter of judgement when to fade out, not a rule that all the applause must be heard however long. The same applies to encores - sometimes they're worth hearing, sometimes not.

Apart from that, as far as I'm aware applause has been faded out before it stops for years on Radio 3 - and if you listen to almost any foreign radio station it's normally faded out even more quickly than is usual on R3.

I don't think that R3's policy in this area has changed all that much over the years. I think I remember long ago one of the announcers saying somewhere that applause is faded down after one minute and that it made a better impression for listeners for the handback to the studio to be just as the applause ahowed signs of petering out rather than the faintly embarrassing situation of having the announcer still speaking over the mass shuffling noise of the audience and performers leaving the auditorium. For the radio audience this seems a sensible policy.

I well remember Solti's 1996 Beethoven 9 when, in the words of the Times critic 'the applause lasted longer than the Adagio'. I can testify to this and Solti eventually came on the platform wearing his coat! A pity that the TV transmission cut out after a few minutes and included none of this. For the radio the 'one minute rule' and handback before applause has finished seems to me to be about right.

[DublinJimbo]

Whatever about truncating or not truncating applause, what I find especially irritating is when the presenter jumps in with often vacuous waffle as soon as the applause begins. A bit of breathing space would be appreciated before speech intrudes.

[Beef Oven]

Some of those really early recordings of Parsifal have almost no applause at the end, never mind truncated