RADIO 3 evening concert intervals - cut the music !

[teamsaint]

It's strange that they like to intersperse decent music with utter verbal drivel in Breakfast, bur when the human voice would be more appropriate in a concert interval, we are force-fed more music.

and odd that on a station so obsessed with "entry level " listeners, that a programme such as the long format "Discovering music" should be discarded.
I would like to see an expanded DM with short concert introductions, and a return of the longer format.
But then I want Saints to win the Premier league !!

[Barbirollians]

and odd that on a station so obsessed with "entry level " listeners, that a programme such as the long format "Discovering music" should be discarded.
I would like to see an expanded DM with short concert introductions, and a return of the longer format.
But then I want Saints to win the Premier league !!

I found Stephen Johnson's presentation of that programme insufferable so i do not miss it .

[Hornspieler]

I have had enough after that Petrushka on the piano - so no Rite for me .

Would you have preferred SJ giving you advanced extracts, (note-perfect of course) from an edited and tailored recording by another orchestra, before the players of the BBC Philharmonic were tasked with having to tackle a work such as "The Rite" live on air?

No editing, no retakes - just the one chance. ... and who needs to be told that a piece starting in D minor and then moving through A major to E flat before returning to the original key (for instance)?

For me, the playing of those other Stravinsky works (not by an orchestra), to give the first-time listener an opportunity to assess the composer's genius was a much better idea.

There are lots of things to complain about with Radio 3 presentation, but I suggest that it is quite easy to turn down the volume and make a cup of tea during the interval and still be back in time for the second half if the listener's tolerance level for music has a limited time span.

I really enjoyed that virtuostic piano rendering of Petrushka - a work that has always been dear to my heart since I first played it with the Anton Dolin/Alicia Markova Festival Ballet at the age of 18.

HS

[teamsaint]

I found Stephen Johnson's presentation of that programme insufferable so i do not miss it .

odd isn't it. I actually don't mind his presentation, although he has a kind of style that I would normally expect to find very irritating. Does that make sense?
I suppose at a certain point I got a lot out of what he was saying, rather than how he was saying it, which helps of course.

DM is very much horses for courses. You really need to be at a particular point in your understanding/appreciation of the music,so programming of the show needed (needs) to be carefully thought through.

[Northender]

Was it interesting?

Mildly (boom! boom!)

[french frank]

and odd that on a station so obsessed with "entry level " listeners, that a programme such as the long format "Discovering music" should be discarded.

It may be totally irrelevant, but when the BBC Trust carried out its review of Radio 3, it asked members of the public, including "those who were not regular Radio 3 or classical music listeners and who therefore did not find the content particularly appealing" to listen to selected programmes one of which, presumably, was Discovering Music, since one person replied,

"Some of the programmes were pitched well above my knowledge level (eg The Sunday Feature: Discovering Music) but they were nevertheless interesting, although I wouldn’t want to listen too much."

Thereafter DM was reduced to an interval talk (according to RW as a result of 'cash cuts'). Coincidentally, the Trust asked R3 to be more 'accessible' to new listeners.

In answer to HS:

Would you have preferred SJ giving you advanced extracts, (note-perfect of course) from an edited and tailored recording by another orchestra, before the players of the BBC Philharmonic were tasked with having to tackle a work such as "The Rite" live on air?

But people don't want it reduced to an interval talk at all; they want a free-standing programme which allows time for a full analysis (and previously this was done by a variety of contributors, not just one covering everything).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

and who needs to be told that a piece starting in D minor and then moving through A major to E flat before returning to the original key (for instance)?

Everybody. Why insist that audiences should be kept in ignorance of the Music they listen to. Any piece that moves from A major to Eb will have a highly individual sonic charge, the (fore)knowledge of which might help to explain any emotional reaction that a listener might feel when s/he hears it. This knowledge would enhance (and perhaps improve) his/her response and enjoyment of the work. It might also be of use to orchestral players, who might not then have to complain that the composer has written a very difficult passage that would be easier played an octave lower. Education is a wonderful thing, and a lifelong experience - one that R3 should be proud to encourage.

[Flosshilde]

one person replied,

"Some of the programmes were pitched well above my knowledge level (eg The Sunday Feature: Discovering Music) but they were nevertheless interesting, although I wouldn’t want to listen too much."

But did that mean they wanted a shorter programme, a less frequent programme, or that they wouldn't listen to it every time it was broadcast?

In answer to HS:

Would you have preferred SJ giving you advanced extracts, (note-perfect of course) from an edited and tailored recording

I think that when it was a longer programme including a performance of the work under discussion it was recorded with an orchestra, with SJ cuing the extracts during his talk. I went to the recording of one programme (not broadcast, afaik) & as well as the full orchestra playing extracts different sections, or even individual instruments, played.

I think that the interval feature should stand in for the programme book, which usually has a brief note about the music, & SJ's talk fits that requirement. Otherwise it could set the music in context of what else was being composed at the time, other developments in music or art generally (but not the Met's awful zeitgeist gallop). If the aim of the live concert is to give listeners at home the feel of the event then playing more music negates that (but presumably to reproduce the authentic experience one would have to queue for a drink, then the loo )

[Hornspieler]

Everybody. Why insist that audiences should be kept in ignorance of the Music they listen to.

Who is insisting on such a thing? So when the work is performed, do you listen out especially for these modulations or do you listen to and enjoy the music?

Any piece that moves from A major to Eb will have a highly individual sonic charge ... the (fore)knowledge of which might help to explain any emotional reaction that a listener might feel when s/he hears it.

What on earth do you mean by that? Does the listener need such an explanation for his/her reaction?

...It might also be of use to orchestral players, who might not then have to complain that the composer has written a very difficult passage. This knowledge would enhance (and perhaps improve) his/her response and enjoyment of the worksage that would be easier played an octave lower.

Absolute speculative bunkum!

Education is a wonderful thing, and a lifelong experience - one that R3 should be proud to encourage.

Yes, but not in that way.

The sort of punter who thinks that a minor key is the ignition for a Morris minor, that Absolute Pitch is as black as possible and that a false Relation is a cheating brother-in-law is most unlikely to be listening to Radio 3. Those who do, in fact, listen to Radio 3, do it for their enjoyment of the music and nothing more.

Sorry, Ferney, but you have obviously never been a professional orchestral player - much as I admire your musical expertise and knowledge in other areas.

HS

[french frank]

But did that mean they wanted a shorter programme, a less frequent programme, or that they wouldn't listen to it every time it was broadcast?

Well, given that they were apparently asking the general public, i imagine they wouldn't even want to listen to R3

HS

Sorry, Ferney, but you have obviously never been a professional orchestral player - much as I admire your musical expertise and knowledge in other areas.

The vast majority of R3 listeners (I venture to suggest) haven't, and they don't necessarily want the same as people who have. My guess is that during concert intervals the pros nip out for a quick half and a natter rather than listen to music on their Walkmans/iPods.

[amateur51]

Who is insisting on such a thing? So when the work is performed, do you listen out especially for these modulations or do you listen to and enjoy the music?

What on earth do you mean by that? Does the listener need such an explanation for his/her reaction?
Absolute speculative bunkum!

Yes, but not in that way.

The sort of punter who thinks that a minor key is the ignition for a Morris minor, that Absolute Pitch is as black as possible and that a false Relation is a cheating brother-in-law is most unlikely to be listening to Radio 3. Those who do, in fact, listen to Radio 3, do it for their enjoyment of the music and nothing more.

Sorry, Ferney, but you have obviously never been a professional orchestral player - much as I admire your musical expertise and knowledge in other areas.

HS

Has Ferney ever implied that he is/was ever an orchestral player? And what has that to do with the price of fish?

I don't need to know the technicalities to which ferney refers but I would be pleased to be told (as a musical ignoramus) so that I could make the connection between what I hear and how I feel when I hear it.

David Own Norris is the past-master of this sort of erudition, which is why I and so many on here find him a rivetting broadcaster

[salymap]

Quite a lot of the players do just that ff, sometimes the public join them. I remember one player who stayed at the back of the platform, studying his new greenhouse catalogue.

Surely every concert is different. Some players go over difficult passages back stage if the final work is demanding. Some audience members study scores. For broadcast concerts, for me, cup of tea or switch off and listen to the 2nd half on iPlayer as I go to bed early.

Freedom of choice is essential IMVHO

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Much the same can be said for programme notes for orchestral concerts. The Halle ones in th 1960s used to contain musical exanples. I found these useful and informative, but presumably being able to read music is now regarded as elitist.

[kuligin]

Much the same can be said for programme notes for orchestral concerts. The Halle ones in th 1960s used to contain musical exanples. I found these useful and informative, but presumably being able to read music is now regarded as elitist.

I remember those programmes, they taught an ignoramus like me a lot, even if some it went over my head, they also told you when the Halle had last played a piece. I thereby found out I was attending the Halle premiere of Janaceks Sinfonietta!

I dont mind the current programmes except for the silly date line telling you a list of events that happened at the same time the music was composed, generally totally irrelevant.

[Hornspieler]

Has Ferney ever implied that he is/was ever an orchestral player? And what has that to do with the price of fish?

My remark was in respect of Ferney's suggestion which I quote below:

...It might also be of use to orchestral players, who might not then have to complain that the composer has written a very difficult passage. This knowledge would enhance (and perhaps improve) his/her response and enjoyment of the worksage that would be easier played an octave lower.

To which suggestion my reply was "Absolute speculative bunkum!"

Orchestral musicians play what is put in front of them - to the best of their ability. That is what they are paid to do, regardless of their personal opinions of either the composer or of his/her musical output.

HS