Vaughan Williams Symphony No 9

[secondfiddle]

Fine performance this evening and good to have this excellent symphony aired. Its first performance was, as stated by the announcer, given by Sir Malcolm Sargent but he never recorded the work. The first recording, made on the day that RVW's death was announced, was conducted by Sir Adrian Boult. RVW was to have attended the sessions, as he did Boult's earlier recordings.

[Barbirollians]

Earlier I heard it said on Radio 3 that VW never heard the work played ? Is that right I always thought that he was not impressed by Sargent's account and could not wait to hear Boult conduct it only to die the night before the recording ?

[Bryn]

Earlier I heard it said on Radio 3 that VW never heard the work played ? Is that right I always thought that he was not impressed by Sargent's account and could not wait to hear Boult conduct it only to die the night before the recording ?

Did the 9th ever get the Rubber Brolly treatment? If so, what a shame that no recording under his direction appears to exist.

[secondfiddle]

Earlier I heard it said on Radio 3 that VW never heard the work played ? Is that right I always thought that he was not impressed by Sargent's account and could not wait to hear Boult conduct it only to die the night before the recording ?

RVW certainly heard the work as he was at the first performance in the RFH. The story goes that as RVW couldn't make the way down to the stage to take a bow, Sargent dashed all the way up to his box to share in the applause and to be photographed with him! As for the performance, according to Sargent's biographer, Charles Reid, the work had only a run-through of 3 hours in St Pancras Town Hall, costing £250 and paid for by the composer, and one other rehearsal on the morning of the concert - 'all that can be said is that Sargent did the best he could', adds Reid.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've never understood why the first Boult cycle was recorded by Decca, apart from the 9th.

[Suffolkcoastal]

The 9th was performed at the Proms on the 5th August 1958, which Sargeant conducted, this was RVW's last public appearance, I have a copy of the 1st performance which was broadcast as part of a general RVW programme on R3 a number of years ago. The Sargeant performance is passable, but rather rushed in places and you feel that he doesn't 'get' the Symphony.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I've never understood why the first Boult cycle was recorded by Decca, apart from the 9th.

Presumably Decca thought they'd done the full set of VW symphonies when they got the 8th in the can in 1956, and they would hardly have kept the LPO and Boult on a retainer just in case another one popped out. So Nonesuch (IIRC) had the chance to get in quick to make the 9th, and did, and in stereo too. (Does anyone know if Decca tried to secure them for the 9th?)

[Flosshilde]

Stunning performance in the hall, as was the Lohengrin prelude. The Beethoven left me cold - & Osborne as a performer was irritating. I can't comment on his musical qualities, but he was bouncing all over the place & flinging his arms about (why do pianists do that?).

If the Beeb don't release the VW symphonies on CD they're mad. They should have released the first ones after the success of the Prom last year, & taken advantage of the critical acclaim.

[Barbirollians]

I agree about the Beethoven Piano Concerto - a brittle, rushed and scrappy performance.

[Pabmusic]

Earlier I heard it said on Radio 3 that VW never heard the work played ? Is that right I always thought that he was not impressed by Sargent's account and could not wait to hear Boult conduct it only to die the night before the recording ?

He attended rehearsals and the 1st performance (there are photos), and I thought Boult conducted it in concert later, which RVW either heard or attended - though I can't confirm that yet.

The 9th was performed at the Proms on the 5th August 1958, which Sargeant conducted, this was RVW's last public appearance, I have a copy of the 1st performance which was broadcast as part of a general RVW programme on R3 a number of years ago. The Sargeant performance is passable, but rather rushed in places and you feel that he doesn't 'get' the Symphony.

I agree (I have a copy of the same). I see that it is now available here:

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC234.php

Here’s Roy Douglas’s recollection (he’s had to make last minute alterations to the score):

These I copied in a mad rush, completing them on the 31st , only just in time for the first hearing [at the RFH on 2nd April].

I use the words ‘first hearing’ deliberately, rather than ‘performance’, because this may indicate how intensely I disliked what Sargent did with the Ninth Symphony. He conducted the correct number of beats in the bar efficiently and elegantly, but clearly the nobility and grandeur of the composer’s conception meant nothing to him; in particular, he had decided that the music was a bit dull in places, so he quickened the speed here and there (where no quickening was intended in the score). This was just one of many faults in a most unmusicianly account of the entire symphony. My friends reminded me that, as we left the hall, I growled between my teeth: ‘Now we can wait for the first performance’, by which I meant that we should not enjoy a truly faithful interpretation of the composer’s intentions until we heard the symphony conducted by Sir Adrian Boult…

[Bryn]

I agree about the Beethoven Piano Concerto - a brittle, rushed and scrappy performance.

Agreed, on the whole, though as is so often the case, the 'slow' movement' was far too much so. Whatever happened to the issue of duple time marked in the original orchestra parts but somehow misread as common time when the first full score was published. There was an (I think) Channel 4 documentary with illustrations of the 2nds and 3rd movements back in the late '70s or very early 80's which covered the relevant research. Anyone here remember it? The orchestra which played the illustrations in that programme was the Hanover Band. For me, the resulting much swifter 'slow' movement brought new life to the work, much as observing Beethoven's metronome markings for the Andante cantabile of the 9th Symphony does.

[salymap]

This is only my opinion but I was around at the time. Sargent had known RVW and Walton for years, he was known as a 'quick study' and both composers sometimes expected too much.Remember Walton's opera thatwas criticized - Troilus and Cressida -and the case of RVW 9. Both composers were 'chums' with MS when they were single, or anyway before Ursula in RVW's case. Their wives resented his close friendship with their husbands -Ursula in a recent film made it clear that she didn't approve of him.
Sargent complained once that he alwaysgot the choral works, not often recording the orchestral ones. He made more money,late in his life, with foreign tours than British concerts, sometimes getting very little for concerts with his Northern choirs.

No excuses but perhaps a bit of background from an oldie. I haven't heard last night's concert but will listen when I can.

[Hornspieler]

I thought that the Lohengrin prelude was beautifully played. (Not only the Leader has to overcome the "Purlies" at the beginning - there are three other violins striving to stop their bows from trembling)

I have to confess that I fell asleep during the 1st movement of RVW 9th and didn't wake up until 10.30pm, so I will have to try again with the iPlayer, but, by all accounts so far, I need not bother with the "Emperor", which, going against the popular trend, is my least favourite of the five Beethoven concertos.

HS

[BBMmk2]

indeed, HS, re The Lohengrin Prelude and I thpought the 9th Symphony was rather well played! A good turn from Radio 3 this week on promoting the not so well known works of RVW!

[Ferretfancy]

My Everest copy of the 9th doesn't give a recording date, but it was issued in November 1958. Stokowski gave the US premiere at Carnegie Hall on 25th September, and this was his anniversary concert as a conductor for 50 years The orchestra is "His Symphony Orchestra " which seems to be hand picked group of musicians. This performance was issued on CD on the Cala label

Apart from the Vaughan Williams, the disc includes Hovhaness's Mysterious Mountain, Creston's Toccata, and New Dance by Wallingford Riegger. No traditional stuff for Stokey !