The Great C major Tonight 15th February.

[Hornspieler]

Don't miss it.

You have Schnebel and Sawyer in the first half to whet your appetite for Schubert's masterpece. (see details on "What's coming up ...." thread.

Schubert 9 is the first symphony I ever heard in the flesh. Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra's inaugurable post war concert conducted by Rudolf Schwarz

HS

[Roehre]

Good to hear Schnebel's Schubertphantasie piece again.
Always had a weak point for it since I heard a broadcast of its premiere some 34 years ago.
Well balanced, and those typical Schubert colours came out brilliantly - as well as the fragments of his G-major piano sonata (if you know that piece, that is).

Sawer was a bit old-fashioned but certainly an effective (quasi-)operatic scene Flesh and Blood. A pity we couldn't see the singers (disguised as mother and son-in-uniform) on the radio. More than once remembered of Britten's late Phaedra. I guess the soloists were miked a bit too much - too much in front of the orchestra, that is.

Haven't heard Schubert 9. Listened to it some 5 or 6 weeks ago for the last time, once in a year that heavenly length suffice for me.

[Hornspieler]

Good to hear Schnebel's Schubertphantasie piece again.
Always had a weak point for it since I heard a broadcast of its premiere some 34 years ago.
Well balanced, and those typical Schubert colours came out brilliantly - as well as the fragments of his G-major piano sonata (if you know that piece, that is).

Sawer was a bit old-fashioned but certainly an effective (quasi-)operatic scene Flesh and Blood. A pity we couldn't see the singers (disguised as mother and son-in-uniform) on the radio. More than once remembered of Britten's late Phaedra. I guess the soloists were miked a bit too much - too much in front of the orchestra, that is.

Haven't heard Schubert 9. Listened to it some 5 or 6 weeks ago for the last time, once in a year that heavenly length suffice for me.

I only heard the Schnebel work last night before being called away.

It sounded imaginatively composed and, as far as I could be sure, well played - but I can't say that I liked it.

Just not my style, I'm afraid.

Will listen to the rest this weekend.

HS

[Alison]

Very enjoyable concert. Never heard of the Schnebel before. Flesh and Blood makes for an excellent concert piece - just the right length - and I look to the BBC to programme it again. Superb sound listening on line.

A refreshing Schubert 9 which flowed without quirks. Just the occasional loss of focus where some detail went slightly missing.

[Thropplenoggin]

I look forward to hearing Hornspieler's account of the Schubert. That opening salvo on the horn! So much pressure, kicking of the symphony like that. How, then, to play it? I like Boult's more measured approached than the one we heard last night, which was a bit too snappy.

This concert had me wanting to invest in another Schubert 9, as I only have the famous Furtwängler account. I used a streaming service to listen to Ivan Fischer's account with the Budapest Festival Orchestra (Channel Classics), which received a rave review in Gramophone a while back. It certainly lives up to it from an initial listen last night. The opening horn solo is played on a valveless 'natural horn'. I wonder what your thoughts are on this, HS?


In which Ivan Fischer does his best Paul Daniels impression...

Stephen Johnson's Discovering Music was excellent and enlightening (comme d'hab).

[gurnemanz]

As a very young man just getting into classical music I heard Schubert 9 for the very first time on a car radio whilst being driven through the Alps. Quite a good location for such massive work. In my innocence I thought it was Bruckner. I eventually bought an LP - the classic Josef Krips/LSO, which I of course later got on CD and remains a favourite.

[Pikaia]

Apparently when it was written one orchestra refused to play it because it was too difficult!

I once saw it played by the Royal Liverpool PO, and I was very impressed by the finger work of the fiddlers as they played the triplets at the start of the last movement.

Unfortunately I didn't hear the concert as I was watching asteroid 2012 DA14 through my telescope. That was fast too!

[Roehre]

Apparently when it was written one orchestra refused to play it because it was too difficult!

That was the predecessor of the Vienna Phil

[Roehre]

As a very young man just getting into classical music I heard Schubert 9 for the very first time on a car radio whilst being driven through the Alps. Quite a good location for such massive work. .....

I am with you: One of the reasons I most of the times have Schubert 9 with me when staying in Switzerland or Austria.

[salymap]

I missed it all because of computer trouble, but hope to catch up over the w/e, if IPlayer R3 still works for me.

[Hornspieler]

I look forward to hearing Hornspieler's account of the Schubert. That opening salvo on the horn! So much pressure, kicking of the symphony like that. How, then, to play it? I like Boult's more measured approached than the one we heard last night, which was a bit too snappy.

This concert had me wanting to invest in another Schubert 9, as I only have the famous Furtwängler account. I used a streaming service to listen to Ivan Fischer's account with the Budapest Festival Orchestra (Channel Classics), which received a rave review in Gramophone a while back. It certainly lives up to it from an initial listen last night. The opening horn solo is played on a valveless 'natural horn'. I wonder what your thoughts are on this, HS?


In which Ivan Fischer does his best Paul Daniels impression...

Stephen Johnson's Discovering Music was excellent and enlightening (comme d'hab).

I have not yet had an opportunity to listen to the symphony, but here are answers to your queries.

a) When I played for Sir Charles Groves, he always insisted on that opening to be played by one horn and not both 1st and 2nd as specified. Not that he mistrusted the second horn - simply that he felt that this was like an opening announcement by a messenger - as opposed to a fanfare, like Tchaikovsky's Capriccio Italien or the finale of Dvorak's 8th symphony. It's quite loud enough played firmly by a single player and (I suspect) less likely to have any discrepancy in ensemble or intonation.

b) I can't really see the point of playing the opening on a valveless horn, unless the work is played by a HIPP orchestra and I am not sure that Schubert himself would not have had access to a valved instrument when he composed this, his final symphony.

Glad you enjoyed the performance. I shall listen tomorrow on iPlayer.

HS

[Hornspieler]

In my previous post, replying to Thropplenoggin's question, I wrote:

I have not yet had an opportunity to listen to the symphony, but here are answers to your queries.

a) When I played for Sir Charles Groves, he always insisted on that opening to be played by one horn and not both 1st and 2nd as specified. Not that he mistrusted the second horn - simply that he felt that this was like an opening announcement by a messenger - as opposed to a fanfare, like Tchaikovsky's Capriccio Italien or the finale of Dvorak's 8th symphony.
It's quite loud enough played firmly by a single player and (I suspect) less likely to have any discrepancy in ensemble or intonation.

It occurs to me that a contrast in writing for two horns playing solo (soli?) in unison is the opening statement in the second movement of Brahms 4th symphony.

When we played this movement on tour in West Germany with Silvestri, he had the 3rd and 4th horns play in unison as written; giving a bold statement of the opening theme, but in the last few bars of that beautiful movement, where that theme appears again, he had it played only by the 3rd horn (a sort of farewell) with the 4th horn only joining in on the final (tutti) chord. Very effective, as I recall.

HS

[Thropplenoggin]

Great stories, HS. Always fascinating to hear a musician's insights!

[Roehre]

....
When we played this movement on tour in West Germany with Silvestri, he had the 3rd and 4th horns play in unison as written; giving a bold statement of the opening theme, but in the last few bars of that beautiful movement, where that theme appears again, he had it played only by the 3rd horn (a sort of farewell) with the 4th horn only joining in on the final (tutti) chord. Very effective, as I recall.

HS

Thanks HS.
Very effective indeed. I recall Haitink doing something similar, trying it out during a rehearsal and then doing so during the actual performances. Haitink is quite often seen balancing an orchestral sound by reducing or doubling lines. I recall Schubert 9, Mahler 1 (the double bass solo in the 3rd mvt), string passages in Mahler 6 8vo, doubling the horn in Strauss' Moon light music from Capriccio e.g.

Do you recall something similar happening elsewhere too, HS?

[Alison]

Thanks HS.
Very effective indeed. I recall Haitink doing something similar, trying it out during a rehearsal and then doing so during the actual performances. Haitink is quite often seen balancing an orchestral sound by reducing or doubling lines. I recall Schubert 9, Mahler 1 (the double bass solo in the 3rd mvt), string passages in Mahler 6 8vo, doubling the horn in Strauss' Moon light music from Capriccio e.g.

Good old Bernard: hoping to see him on Thursday evening