Things I Gleaned From A Live Performance of Beethoven's 9th

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  • Thropplenoggin
    • Jun 2024

    Things I Gleaned From A Live Performance of Beethoven's 9th

    I was present last night at Daniele Gatti's completion of his l'intégrale des symphonies de Beethoven at the Théâtre de Champs-Elysées. It should be available as a podcast on France-Musique soon.

    Here's a few observations about my hearing the Ninth live as opposed to just on record:

    1) Hearing the melody of the Second Movement seem to move through the orchestra - strings, woodwinds, more strings, cellos and basses - fascinating to see and hear this happening.

    2) It seemed to be a string heavy orchestra. I counted 7 double-basses and 9 cellos and lots and lots of violins (20?) in two separate 'banks' either side of the conductor. I only saw five bits of brass (horns?) This allowed the string-led bits of the symphony to really shine: (the plucked (pizzicato?) section in the adagio really audible; the start of the 4th movement, where the cellos and double-basses introduce the Ode to Joy melody; etc.

    However, that discordant tutti which opens the last movement was notably underpowered to how I've often heard it on record. This was one of the few disappointments of an otherwise riveting performance, that packed a real emotional wallop.

    I'd be interested in learning if Gatti had selected the orchestra especially this way, or whether it was standard set-up. Can conductors add brass and/or woodwind and/or strings at will?

    3) Clapping at the end of the 1st movement. This narked the 1st Violin (a woman who seemed over-familiar with Gatti and whose excessive facial gestures made me feel as if Pantomime season had started earlier this year.) and seemed to upset Gatti, too, albeit momentarily.

    4) There was one especially bored-looking individual in the woodwind. I wondered what he was doing there, until he pulled a piccolo out of his pocket towards the end of the 4th movement. Still, he could've smiled a bit.

    5) The choir probably outshone the singers, where the soprano seemed too dominant at times. The choir really nailed this performance, lending it a fantastic wall of sound.

    6) A remarkably well-behaved audience in terms of coughs and splutters, for once.

    7) I was also impressed with the total control Gatti had over the orchestra, seemingly able to bring them all to a halt on a sixpence. He really let the music breath, though I felt he was a bit Furtwängler-ish in his use of rubato, at times.

    8) The adagio could have been played at a faster lick. I heard Vänskä's performance today, which seems the ideal (and I write that as a fan of Furtwängler's self-indulgence!)

    9) Perhaps what impressed me most was hearing those strange little 'otherworldly' bits of the symphony (plenty in the final movement, and the end of the first (the lament bass part), that invoke awe, a sense of the sublime, hearing those in the flesh, and having them outshine any recording I've heard to date. I was moved to tears.
  • Nick Armstrong
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 26347

    #2


    Great review, Mr T! Loved the details - facial expressions &c. - as well as the musical comments. What resonates most for me in what you say is the last point:

    Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
    9) Perhaps what impressed me most was hearing those strange little 'otherworldly' bits of the symphony (plenty in the final movement, and the end of the first (the lament bass part), that invoke awe, a sense of the sublime, hearing those in the flesh, and having them outshine any recording I've heard to date. I was moved to tears.
    It's those 'otherworldly' moments that for me mark out the really great artistic experiences I've ever had. Music, certainly... but it also makes me think of Shakespeare: the surreal mock trial scene on the heath in 'King Lear' springs to mind... sublime, timeless things conveyed by the slightest or strangest means, which transcend period or history. They are the really moving & memorable moments.

    Lucky you, last night

    Hope the RATP/SNCF delivered a reasonably agreeable trip home afterwards?
    "...the isle is full of noises,
    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

    Comment

    • Thropplenoggin

      #3
      Thanks, C, for sharing your own experiences of whatever it is in art that speaks to us on some profounder level (the sublime, mysterium tremendens, etc.) Shakespeare comes to mean more to me with each passing year. How grateful I am that these works were introduced to me at school, where seeds were sown, if only to become germane long after that initial study.

      Alas, I was driving. Yes, braving the French roads where rules are for chumps. Honestly, the French driver makes the Italian look civilised!

      Of course, the one night I pick to dine out in Paris is the night of beaujolais nouveau...dreadful stuff but one feels forced into having a glass.

      Comment

      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 29529

        #4
        New title, so bumped in the hope of stimulating interest
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

        Comment

        • Petrushka
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 12013

          #5
          Beethoven 9 live can indeed pack an emotional punch far in excess of anything you will get from a recording, even the best, especially in the finale (which some on here don't like). In any live performance of anything the visual element is a very important factor and that partly explains why you notice so many unheard details.

          The two most memorable LvB 9's at which I've been present have both been at the Proms: VPO/Abbado (1987) and Chicago SO/Solti (1996). At the same time, the two dullest have also been at the Proms: LSO/Ferdinand Leitner (1983) and LSO/Colin Davis (1999). Neither ever caught fire, alas.

          For sheer memorability, who can forget Leonard Bernstein's Christmas Day 1989 performance relayed live from Berlin that morning?
          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

          Comment

          • jayne lee wilson
            Banned
            • Jul 2011
            • 10711

            #6
            Roger Norrington's terrific live SWR Stuttgart peformance (2002) has thrilled me far beyond any live one I've heard! I'd be surprised if it doesn't do the same for you too!

            Comment

            • Petrushka
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12013

              #7
              Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
              Roger Norrington's terrific live SWR Stuttgart peformance (2002) has thrilled me far beyond any live one I've heard! I'd be surprised if it doesn't do the same for you too!
              As you probably know, Jayne, I've got over 50 versions of the LvB 9 on CD and do have Norrington's earlier account with the LCP. Not a great Norrie fan, but your advocacy is compelling (as always). Just won a nice bit of cash on the 2.35 at Cheltenham this afternoon which nicely paid for Christmas so, as a bonus, will treat myself to this.
              "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

              Comment

              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                #8
                Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                As you probably know, Jayne, I've got over 50 versions of the LvB 9 on CD and do have Norrington's earlier account with the LCP. Not a great Norrie fan, but your advocacy is compelling (as always). Just won a nice bit of cash on the 2.35 at Cheltenham this afternoon which nicely paid for Christmas so, as a bonus, will treat myself to this.
                How's your German? A bonus disc in the boxed set has short illustrated talks on the first 8 by a variety of commentators. Not sure why the 9th was not similarly covered.

                Comment

                • Thropplenoggin

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                  As you probably know, Jayne, I've got over 50 versions of the LvB 9 on CD and do have Norrington's earlier account with the LCP. Not a great Norrie fan, but your advocacy is compelling (as always). Just won a nice bit of cash on the 2.35 at Cheltenham this afternoon which nicely paid for Christmas so, as a bonus, will treat myself to this.
                  Feel free to share the racing tips in a PM.

                  Comment

                  • Petrushka
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12013

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
                    Feel free to share the racing tips in a PM.
                    We had a thread on Platform 3 to which Alison gave us some fantastic tips during the summer Flat season. Perhaps we ought to get one up and running for the National Hunt season.
                    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                    Comment

                    • Nick Armstrong
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 26347

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                      Just won a nice bit of cash on the 2.35 at Cheltenham this afternoon which nicely paid for Christmas so, as a bonus, will treat myself to this.
                      We fund our addictions as best we can!!
                      "...the isle is full of noises,
                      Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                      Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                      Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                      Comment

                      • teamsaint
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 25099

                        #12
                        nice review.Thanks.
                        i did momentarily wonder where point #4 was going, though...
                        I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                        I am not a number, I am a free man.

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