Halle/Elder 1/11/2012

[Nick Armstrong]

Please send me some sympathy and encouragement as I have to conduct that piece in less than a month's time, in Scotland, rehearsing it only the day before the concert!

Best of luck Waldo!! Hope you can "channel" the late great Paavo and give the audience something to remember!

[amateur51]

Best of luck Waldo!! Hope you can "channel" the late great Paavo and give the audience something to remember!

Seconded Caliban! Good luck waldhorn

[Hornspieler]

Oh dear Mr Hornspieler, a case of mistaken attribution: that superb wind sextet 'Mladi' ( 'Youth') is by Janacek not Nielsen.
Since I'm mentioning superb works for Wind ensemble, IMV the Nielsen wind quintet is one of the few unarguably GREAT 20thC works in this medium, the others being Samuel Barber's 'Summer Music', Schoenberg's Wind Quintet , Hindemith's 'Kleine Kammermusik', Ligeti's 6 Bagatelles and 10 pieces.
The finest symphony by Nielsen ( the 5th IMHO) was recorded by our old orchestra in what I think is a 'definitive' performance conducted by Berglund.
Please send me some sympathy and encouragement as I have to conduct that piece in less than a month's time, in Scotland, rehearsing it only the day before the concert!

Well I'm sorry about the wrong attribution for Mladi, Mr waldhorn. It was, as I recall, 1969 when I encountered the piece, as a last minute deputy for someone taken ill. Or was that the Nielson Quintet? The memory of past horrors tends to dwindle with the passage of time.

So you've taken up the baton! I wish you all the luck in the world with Nielsen's Nº 5. Not that you'll need luck, I'm sure - it does not bear the sub-title "the unconductable" does it?

If you can remember Berglund's reading, that's a pretty good start.
Do let us all know how it went (in a few weeks time)

HS.

[Roslynmuse]

Roslynmuse;

Your post (message#12) echoes my own feelings about this concert very closely.

So you can't stand Nielsen's music. That makes two of us - I don't even like his wind piece "Mladi"

As you can see from my message #3, those Beethoven overtures are anything but memorable - I would settle for Egmont, Coriolan and the Leonoras/Fidelio but that's the lot!

Interesting to me that you were in the hall. Listening on Radio, the balance seemed pretty good and I really could find little fault in the interpretation or the orchestra's ensemble.

I guess we all hear what we want to hear in the final analysis.

HS

It's allergy by association - Nielsen's music reminds me of two periods of my life best forgotten, and two acquaintances I would rather not have anything further to do with, so badly did they (independently and some 20 years apart) behave. These associations have even coloured my view of the two Nielsen Symphonies I rather admired (No 3 and No 5). Besides that, I just don't get those wind concertos - why is the clarinet concerto so fragmented? It doesn't seem to hang together at all.

My loss, probably.

[Tony Halstead]

why is the clarinet concerto so fragmented? It doesn't seem to hang together at all.

I agree with you... BUT the flute concerto is a masterpiece.
Especially when played like this, by Frantz Lemmser

http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Violin-Concerto-Clarinent-Orchestral/dp/B000002SFK

[jayne lee wilson]

Oh dear Mr Hornspieler, a case of mistaken attribution: that superb wind sextet 'Mladi' ( 'Youth') is by Janacek not Nielsen.
Since I'm mentioning superb works for Wind ensemble, IMV the Nielsen wind quintet is one of the few unarguably GREAT 20thC works in this medium, the others being Samuel Barber's 'Summer Music', Schoenberg's Wind Quintet , Hindemith's 'Kleine Kammermusik', Ligeti's 6 Bagatelles and 10 pieces.
The finest symphony by Nielsen ( the 5th IMHO) was recorded by our old orchestra in what I think is a 'definitive' performance conducted by Berglund.
Please send me some sympathy and encouragement as I have to conduct that piece in less than a month's time, in Scotland, rehearsing it only the day before the concert!

Well, WH, Deryck Cooke, for all his Mahlerian devotions, once described Nielsen's 5th as "the greatest symphony of the 20th Century". I'd rather not pick just one, but I remain an ardent devotee of Nielsen's work, especially the symphonies. I do see them as one of the 3 or 4 great 20th century cycles, along with Mahler and Shostakovich and Sibelius. (Add another according to taste - VW perhaps). So you may feel honoured (if daunted...). That BSO/Berglund LP was an early purchase of mine - I'll never forget the impact of hearing the 1st movement climax for the first time! It began a lifelong love affair with this composer.

With the Nielsen Wind Concerti, do bear in mind that both these late works were composed after the 6th symphony, and show Nielsen going even further in his creation of continuously evolving developmental structures which had always obsessed him, but especially after the 4-in-1 4th Symphony. He was never going to be satisfied with some late, nostalgic recollections, and these 2 Concerti break new ground structurally and imaginatively - the mood and soundworld explored is very new and strange. The side-drum in the clarinet concerto (almost a second soloist) is a distant relative to that in the 5th symphony, but whilst mischievous, even malicious, in its narrative disruptions, it is no crude destructive agent; more a recognition of the violent impulses that lie somewhere in all of us, closer to the surface or more distant, according to experience and temperament.

These aren't works which become, in any conventional sense, "familiar" through repeated hearing; every time one returns to them, the challenge is renewed. But do persist - the rewards will come.

[Roslynmuse]

I'm afraid that over the last twenty or so years I've listened to, pored over and had to play (the orchestral reduction thereof, occasionally with a side-drummer to hand) the Clarinet Concerto so many times without getting any pleasure out of it whatsoever that I can't imagine that state will ever change. I simply don't like the notes and can't see any satisfying shape in the work.

The symphonies are a different matter - I can recognise a fine composer behind them, but (as with Bruckner, Shostakovich and RVW) find the musical rewards sporadic (partly for the reasons outlined above). I do keep trying, but not liking a composer's style does rather get in the way! At least I can get pleasure out of Sibelius, Mahler, Elgar and Tippett...

[jayne lee wilson]

Listening to Rachmaninov's own 1939 recording of the 3rd Symphony's 1st movement with the Philadelphians one is struck by how natural and convincing his rubato sounds. The tempo variations firmly map out the structure as they follow the emotional ebb and flow. He really urges the orchestra into the climaxes, tightening up the second subject strikingly in the recapitulation. Not an easy recording to listen to but try to hear it! Composers aren't always their own best interpreters but this is a very instructive document.

Second time around (as so often!) I did warm a little more to Elder's approach, and had more time to admire the beauty of the textures he created. Elder may even have modelled his 2nd subject on Rachmaninov's own approach (and takes it further...), but I still feel he lets the 1st movement hang fire through the development and especially the recap. To relax too much and often does undermine the movement's shape and impact. He also took the exposition repeat, which emphasised the langorous feeling left by his account of this movement - perhaps a little too much time admiring the scenery, rather than mapping out the terrain? That may have been his aim, and life would be dull without different interpretations - but Rachmaninov-as-conductor does make more sense of his own music here, as an emotional narrative.

[Hornspieler]

Listening to Rachmaninov's own 1939 recording of the 3rd Symphony's 1st movement with the Philadelphians one is struck by how natural and convincing his rubato sounds. The tempo variations firmly map out the structure as they follow the emotional ebb and flow. He really urges the orchestra into the climaxes, tightening up the second subject strikingly in the recapitulation. Not an easy recording to listen to but try to hear it! Composers aren't always their own best interpreters but this is a very instructive document.

Second time around (as so often!) I did warm a little more to Elder's approach, and had more time to admire the beauty of the textures he created. Elder may even have modelled his 2nd subject on Rachmaninov's own approach (and takes it further...), but I still feel he lets the 1st movement hang fire through the development and especially the recap. To relax too much and often does undermine the movement's shape and impact. He also took the exposition repeat, which emphasised the langorous feeling left by his account of this movement - perhaps a little too much time admiring the scenery, rather than mapping out the terrain? That may have been his aim, and life would be dull without different interpretations - but Rachmaninov-as-conductor does make more sense of his own music here, as an emotional narrative.

I've just unearthed Silvestri's recording of the Rachmaninov 3rd symphony with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. It was in the wrong CD case, so I only found it by accident, although I knew I had it somewhere.

One of Silvestri's great assets was his ability to make any music he conducted sound on a par with the greatest of composers (the likes of Max Reger or George Enescu spring to mind) so I've decided to have a listen after all these years.
So far, I am impressed by the performance of the orchestra for accuracy and excitement. There is plenty of rubato - much more, I would say, than Mark Elder's recent performance.

I just wish that I could put this recording onto the message boards, so that all might hear it. It really does sound like a wonderful example of Rachmaninov's writing.

HS

BTW Outstanding flute playing by the late Laurence Beers.

[Tony Halstead]

I just wish that I could put this recording onto the message boards, so that all might hear it. It really does sound like a wonderful example of Rachmaninov's writing.

HS

BTW Outstanding flute playing by the late Laurence Beers.

You could ( I think) put it in 'Dropbox' - maybe one movement at a time? Or have I misunderstood Dropbox?

[Hornspieler]

You could ( I think) put it in 'Dropbox' - maybe one movement at a time? Or have I misunderstood Dropbox?

Thanks waldhorn (message #25)
Perhaps some kind soul will tell me a little more about Dropbox? Which I've never heard of.

Dave2002 or Ferretfancy?

HS

[antongould]

Thanks waldhorn (message #25)
Perhaps some kind soul will tell me a little more about Dropbox? Which I've never heard of.

Dave2002 of Ferretfancy?

HS

I would think if you can convert it to mp3 all things are possible ........as to legal ..........Rumpole?

[Tony Halstead]

https://www.dropbox.com/tour/1

[Hornspieler]

https://www.dropbox.com/tour/1

Following Waldhorn's very helpful advice, I have now set up a Dropbox on my computer system and have placed a wavefile of Silvestri's reading of Rachmaninov's 3rd Symphony in its music folder.

Can somebody now please give me detailed instructions (step by step) how to create a link so that message boarders will be able to use it to download this fantastic performance?

(The instructions for creating such a link, provided by Dropbox is beyond my understanding)

HS

BTW The performance, which is in mono, is very clear for its age (it was originally recorded on an open reel tape at 15/16 i.p.s.) but there is some slight radio interference towards the very end of the last movement.