Not MORE Mozart?

[french frank]

I agree about the concert arias, Suffy, I have been listening to these quite a bit recently, and greatly enjoying them.

Including Popoli di Tessaglia? I asked on various forums about this: Wikipedia seems to confirm that the Guinness Book of Records reports it as having the highest note ever scored for human voice. I have heard Edita Gruberova sing it. And, lo!. And also Natalie Dessay (an amusing display of the score here!).

[teamsaint]

Including Popoli di Tessaglia? I asked on various forums about this: Wikipedia seems to confirm that the Guinness Book of Records reports it as having the highest note ever scored for human voice. I have heard Edita Gruberova sing it. And, lo!. And also Natalie Dessay (an amusing display of the score here!).

Great link to the amazong Dessay performance,FF.

Gee whizz.....

[french frank]

Great link to the amazong Dessay performance,FF.

Gee whizz.....

Little things please little minds - I really laughed each time the G6 appeared, on its own. Just so you don't miss it!

[Nick Armstrong]

I really laughed each time the G6 appeared, on its own. Just so you don't miss it!

[Flosshilde]

Is it just that my mozartophobia is worse than usual, or is there more Mozart than usual on at the moment?

There's been quite a lot in recent SCO & BBCSSO concerts recently. In one concert I did go to (there was some splendid Haydn, too, which is what I went for) the Mozart was the second item in the first half, which is when I usually nod off, so it was well-placed & allowed me to enjoy the rest of the concert.

[Stanfordian]

There's been quite a lot in recent SCO & BBCSSO concerts recently. In one concert I did go to (there was some splendid Haydn, too, which is what I went for) the Mozart was the second item in the first half, which is when I usually nod off, so it was well-placed & allowed me to enjoy the rest of the concert.

Hiya Flosshilde,

The mind boggles!

[Flosshilde]

[gurnemanz]

Including Popoli di Tessaglia? I asked on various forums about this: Wikipedia seems to confirm that the Guinness Book of Records reports it as having the highest note ever scored for human voice. I have heard Edita Gruberova sing it. And, lo!. And also Natalie Dessay (an amusing display of the score here!).

Thanks for those links. Not having a recording in my collection, I started idly Googling around and was surprised to find Rita Streich on Amazon in an unusually relaxed pose.

[french frank]

Thanks for those links. Not having a recording in my collection, I started idly Googling around and was surprised to find Rita Streich on Amazon in an unusually relaxed pose.

Populi de Tessaglia suffers slightly from having been torn from its intended dramatic (operatic) context to become a concert aria. In that respect, I'd go for Ridente la calma (nice performance from Barbara Bonney).

But I'll still wallow in Arleen Auger's Abendemfindung - meltingly pure song. Really, can any Mozart hater not be moved by this? And by the poignancy of Auger's performance?

[peterthekeys]

Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are probably the 'Top 3' but if you have a phobia for one or all of them they're probably played too often. I mean - Bach every morning!!!! What is it with Bach, then?

I always feel as though I'm uttering heresy when I say I don't like Mozart, and I've thought a lot about it over the years. Undoubtedly much of it stems from my experience at the RNCM - I was made to play K332 (well, I wasn't told I had an option) and not only couldn't play it, but couldn't bear it either. At the end of the first year, I was thrown out - and rightly or wrongly assumed that it was mainly because I couldn't play - or bear - Mozart!

I admire - even revere - his perfection of musical form (a lot of the composers I love - e.g. Ravel and Sibelius - loved Mozart, and apparently mainly for this reason.) The thing I can't cope with is his harmony. For me, if a piece doesn't have (what appeals to me as) interesting harmony, I'm not interested at all. It has occurred to me that Mozart may have deliberately simplified the harmonic content of his music (apologies if that's more heresy) in order to throw into relief the formal perfection and the melodic element - or, given the fact that he was writing to order for much of his life, maybe it was in deference to a perception that his patrons might not want "too many notes". He could write fascinating harmony (to say nothing of counterpoint,) as evinced by works like the last three symphonies (the "Jupiter" is my favourite amongst his works - I sometimes wonder what he would have written if he had followed this line of development (and obviously lived a bit longer.))

I get on better with Beethoven (although I don't think he'll ever be my favourite composer.) As far as Bach is concerned, my view is that he is in a class above everyone else (which doesn't mean that I "like" everything he wrote - but there are just times when, for me, nothing but Bach will do. I remember some distinguished musician saying on R3 a few years back that Mozart makes you feel what it's like to be human; Beethoven makes you feel what it's like to be Beethoven - and Bach makes you feel what it must be like to be the universe.)

(Probably worth mentioning that I "get on" with Haydn better than either Beethoven or Mozart - still seriously underrated.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The thing I can't cope with is his harmony. For me, if a piece doesn't have (what appeals to me as) interesting harmony, I'm not interested at all. It has occurred to me that Mozart may have deliberately simplified the harmonic content of his music (apologies if that's more heresy) in order to throw into relief the formal perfection and the melodic element - or, given the fact that he was writing to order for much of his life, maybe it was in deference to a perception that his patrons might not want "too many notes". He could write fascinating harmony (to say nothing of counterpoint,) as evinced by works like the last three symphonies (the "Jupiter" is my favourite amongst his works - I sometimes wonder what he would have written if he had followed this line of development (and obviously lived a bit longer.)

I can only repeat what I've said before - give 100 Music Students (each with more than five years' experience in 18th Century Harmony) the first eight bars of the melody of K488, and none of them would get what Mozart does (unless they already knew the piece, of course). (I would also add that there cannot be "perfection of Form" if there isn't also perfection of Harmony.) Mozza's "problem" is that he makes everything seem "simple" - it's only when you try to replicate what he's doing that you realize just how astonishing he was. (Again - and further apologies for repeating myself - he's like Fred Astaire, making everything look so easy; it's only when you try to copy what he does that you end up looking a clot on your backside on the floor.)

[gurnemanz]

Populi de Tessaglia suffers slightly from having been torn from its intended dramatic (operatic) context to become a concert aria. In that respect, I'd go for Ridente la calma (nice performance from Barbara Bonney).

But I'll still wallow in Arleen Auger's Abendemfindung - meltingly pure song. Really, can any Mozart hater not be moved by this? And by the poignancy of Auger's performance?

Sorry, only just seen your reply. From her spoken intro you can hear how good Auger's German was. I think she spent a lot of time there and in Austria. We heard a lovely recital in Germany in the 70s. She sings very beautifully on the Hogwood C minor mass. A tragedy that she died so young. A favourite version of Abendempfindung is from Irmgard Seefried.

I love Barbara Bonney and have several solo recital CDs - Schubert, Zemlinsky the superb Fairest Isle

[french frank]

he's like Fred Astaire, making everything look so easy; it's only when you try to copy what he does that you end up looking a clot on your backside on the floor

I think there was one of his letters in which he said (somewhat aggrieved?) that some pupil had complained that everything was so EASY for Mozart … to which M's response was that he had worked bloody HARD (or words to that effect) to get it to look easy.

Not being a musician, I don't even understand what peterthekeys means about the harmony, only what he said about blaming Mozart for having been thrown out of RNCM!

All I know is that this thread has reawakened my fascination and I play a couple of the sonatas every night (on the CD player, not the piano); and have made a special folder dedicated to Abendempfindung with a recording, the text in English and German and an essay about the history of the editorial 'an Laura' sometimes tacked on to the title (probably spuriously). I think I love the sonatas even more than the piano concertos for the quiet intimacy. Like Schubert's. Current fave is K 330, esp. the Andante cantabile

PS Just seen gurnemanz's post - and that I missed the p out of EmPPPPPfindung last time. Yes, it's the Auger recording in my folder

[gurnemanz]

I'm also not able to pass judgement on Mozart's mastery of harmony. The K516 Quintet is coming to my desert island - a profound, beautiful and uplifting work which I have loved listening to for 40 years or more.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The K516 Quintet is coming to my desert island - a profound, beautiful and uplifting work which I have loved listening to for 40 years or more.

- all this talk today, earlier about the Beethoven Quartets, and now the Mozart Quintets - - - too much for me to cope with: I'm going to lie down for a little while before somebody mentions The Art of Fugue!