CBSO tonight at 7.30pm

[Hornspieler]

Live from Symphony Hall, Birmingham

Presented by Simon Hoban

Andris Nelsons begins his complete Beethoven symphonic cycle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra at Birmingham's Symphony Hall with the first two symphonies sandwiching the glorious Violin Concerto, played by Baiba Skride.

The symphonies of Ludwig van Beethoven are the greatest journey any conductor and orchestra can take together. All of human experience is contained in these nine life-changing masterpieces. Here, Andris Nelsons and the CBSO begin that journey with the joyous First and Second Symphonies: the sound of a bold young genius stretching his wings, and ruffling a few feathers. Birmingham favourite Baiba Skride is the soloist in the glowing serenity of Beethoven's ravishing Violin Concerto.

Beethoven: Symphony No.1 in C major
Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D major
INTERVAL
Beethoven: Symphony No.2 in D

Baiba Skride (violin)
City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra
Andris Nelsons, conductor

It's some time since we heard a concert from Birmingham's City Hall.

A bit close to the Beethoven cycle on this year's Proms, but useful comparisons regarding venue, orchestra and conductor might be drawn!

HS

[french frank]

A bit close to the Beethoven cycle on this year's Proms, but useful comparisons regarding venue, orchestra and conductor might be drawn!

And another violin concerto to go with it - not that the Proms performance with Tetzlaff received universal praise ...

[jayne lee wilson]

WONDERFUL Beethoven 2nd!
Is this the only symphony whose final climax is led, or crowned, by the double-basses? Well they certainly got their teeth into the coda tonight. Exciting end to a fine concert, superbly relayed from Symphony Hall, with a particularly impressive bass response. Nelsons' approach - largish band, precise, swift and transparent, with a wide dynamic range (whisper-soft pps...) reminded me a little of Vanska's Minneapolis cycle.

Seem to have forgotten to eat today... better put that right, right now...

[Hornspieler]

And another violin concerto to go with it - not that the Proms performance with Tetzlaff received universal praise ...

How refreshing to hear Beethoven played by a professional orchestra, under the direction of a professional conductor!

Certainly the most enjoyable and convincing performance of the 1st symphony that I've heard for many years.

The 2nd symphony (my favourite) was played with panache and assurance.

Was the violin soloist a little nervous in places? A nice musical reading all the same.

Well done CBSO!

Let's see how the Hallé get on tomorrow.

Goodnight all.

HS

[Flosshilde]

How refreshing to hear Beethoven played by a professional orchestra, under the direction of a professional conductor!

HS

How do you define professional in those two cases?

[french frank]

How do you define professional in those two cases?

I think it would be that in one case the orchestra didn't reach HS's rigorous professional standards. Though the use of 'refreshing' suggests to me that most other performances that we hear are not of such a standard either, whereas what he really means is that the Proms orchestra in that case, in his rigorous, professional view, was not up to scratch. Although, now I come to think of it, he probably included Barenboim and the WEDO as well ...

[Hornspieler]

How do you define professional in those two cases?

Originally Posted by Hornspieler
[How refreshing to hear Beethoven played by a professional orchestra, under the direction of a professional conductor!

Good morning Flosshilde.

In answer to your question, I use the term "professional" in the context of experience and expertise - not in terms of financial remuneration.

HS

[Flosshilde]

I guessed it wasn't the financial aspect that was uppermost in your mind. I have - somewhere - a copy of an article from a journal relating to the arts that discussed the professional/amateur spectrum. It suggested that 'professionalism' included making a living from the work, but also waht was possibly more important - the approach, both in practice and intent, to the work, as well as experience & expertise. I'm sure that Barrenboim & the EWDO are 'professional' in their approach, & certainly Barenboim is in terms of experience & presumably expertise (if only because he's been doing it for some time). If the EWDO doesn't have the experience of other orchestras it's because of the nature of the orchestra. As for expertise, I'm not sufficiently knowledgable to ay whether they are better or worse than the CBSO.

Basically, i felt that your original comment was rather snide, mean-spirited & unneccessary.

[Hornspieler]

I guessed it wasn't the financial aspect that was uppermost in your mind. I have - somewhere - a copy of an article from a journal relating to the arts that discussed the professional/amateur spectrum. It suggested that 'professionalism' included making a living from the work, but also waht was possibly more important - the approach, both in practice and intent, to the work, as well as experience & expertise. I'm sure that Barrenboim & the EWDO are 'professional' in their approach, & certainly Barenboim is in terms of experience & presumably expertise (if only because he's been doing it for some time). If the EWDO doesn't have the experience of other orchestras it's because of the nature of the orchestra. As for expertise, I'm not sufficiently knowledgable to ay whether they are better or worse than the CBSO.

Basically, i felt that your original comment was rather snide, mean-spirited & unneccessary.

Thank you for your reply. Basically, I think you have given an accurate summation of what I wrote.

There is no denying that the EWDO lack experience and, in some sections, expertise. How could it be otherwise with such a young orchestra?
Daniel Barenboim is a great musician and has done wonderful work in overcoming the political barriers to form this orchestra; but his experience as a conductor is limted, in comparison with those who hold regular prestigious positions, and one has only to watch him conducting to realise that he has no expertise in leading and controlling a young orchestra who need such guidance.
To have expected him to take over at short notice to conduct the entire Beethoven symphonic repertoire and for this young and worthy orchestra to undertake such a task over a period of little more than a week could only result in the result that ensued. Under the circumstances, I would say that the performances were better than anyone had a right to expect, but it does not mean that they were in any way without fault.

Last night, the CBSO showed this to be true. Bad planning, by the BBC in my opinion, to schedule those symphonies 1 and 2 so close in a matter of only a few weeks.

That is my opinion and others will disagree, but please let us not start wrangling but concentrate on the subject of this thread - the performance last night of the CBSO and message boarder's reactions for or against.

HS

[french frank]

Point of information, although it's two against one so far, I feel bound to point out that the acronym WEDO which I used, Msg #6, is the correct one, not EWDO. West Eastern Divan Orchestra, not Emotional Wellbeing Development Officer.

Thank you ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

but [Barenboim's] experience as a conductor is limted, in comparison with those who hold regular prestigious positions

?

Music Director of the Orchestre de Paris 1975-89
Music Director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, 1991-2006
Music Director of the Berlin Staatskapelle since 1992
Music Director of La Scala Milan since 2006
Regular appearances as conductor with the BPO, NYPO, ECO and IPO
Attended Markevich's conducting masterclasses in Salzburg when he was 12!

[jayne lee wilson]

Listening to Vanska in No.2 later, it is a fine account but I preferred Nelsons' quicker and more dramatic approach, urgently live of course... his tempi were closer to my beloved Scherchen, though the sonorities were lighter and clearer. Scherzos in both symphonies were fast and tightly phrased, and I liked the way Nelsons also tightened up articulation and dynamics in No.1's first movement repeat.

Shame it's so long till the next concert (December I think the presenter said) given the dearth of live orchestras (and too much familiar rep.) on R3 now away from the Proms. Hope they give us that one.

I know exactly what HS means about "professional" - the orchestra and the music were firmly shaped and directed, with confidence, character and individuality. I would add that it was wonderful to hear such a great acoustic so finely relayed too!

[aeolium]

Music Director of the Orchestre de Paris 1975-89
Music Director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, 1991-2006
Music Director of the Berlin Staatskapelle since 1992
Music Director of La Scala Milan since 2006
Regular appearances as conductor with the BPO, NYPO, ECO and IPO
Attended Markevich's conducting masterclasses in Salzburg when he was 12!

fhg

I think he's a very fine conductor, and he has very few peers imo among the soloists who have also turned their hand to conducting.

[Flosshilde]

Point of information, although it's two against one so far, I feel bound to point out that the acronym WEDO which I used, Msg #6, is the correct one, not EWDO. West Eastern Divan Orchestra, not Emotional Wellbeing Development Officer.

Thank you ...

Apologies. For some reason I always think of it as the East-West etc.


HS - agreed, this shouldn't be a debate about the merits of Barenboim as a conductor nor of the expertise of the WEDO. But, you did introduce the idea, and in a way, I thought, that was rather unfair to them. And now, as I didn't hear either concert, I'll shut up.

[Osborn]

I would add that it was wonderful to hear such a great acoustic so finely relayed too!

Orfeo recorded both performances & there were microphones all over the platform. I just wonder if there was some cooperation between the BBC & Orfeo - as you say, the broadcast sound was marvellous.

What didn't come across was Baiba Skride's acutely intelligent reading & her lovely, poised & lyrical tone - she exploited the fabulous acoustics to wonderful effect, effortlessly projecting gleaming phrases through the tiniest ripple of air movement in the vast volume of Symphony Hall. She certainly wasn't on autopilot, was attentive to everything, smiling at passages that pleased her, at Nelsons & her partners in the orchestra. The dimension of space just doesn't come across in broadcast or CD.

Do you know whose cadenzas she played? The audience behaviour was impeccable throughout. Now think I'll go to hear her Brahms with CBSO/Nelsons next month!