Square or Forte?

[Pianorak]

Don't want to hijack the Mozart Fest thread on which I mentioned that I may yet grow to like the fortepiano.
What puzzles me is why the fortepiano is still so beloved by so many - and yet the square piano has almost completely disappeared. Yet I think the square piano has a more mellow yet rich tone allied to the same light touch of a fortepiano. An excellent example: Peter Katin playing Schubert D946, 969 and 780 on a Clementi Square piano of 1832 (ATH CD7 - erroneously called fortepiano on the CD front cover).

[MickyD]

Hi, pianorak - I agree with you over the Katin disc and find it very sad that we don't have more CDs of square pianos available when one considers how many of them were around in domestic circles at the time. During its regrettably brief life, Athene did a good job in promoting the instrument - Katin did some Clementi as well - and Joanna Leach gave us the (nearly) complete nocturnes of John Field, which I love. I once begged Peter Katin on these boards to do the complete Mendelssohn Songs without Words on his square piano - he told me that it had been on the cards, but with the demise of Athene, it never happened. A great shame, in my opinion.

[Pianorak]

Thanks MickyD - What a shame Athene is no more. Will try and get the John Field nocturnes - I'm sure the square piano is just right for them! I'm still surprised that I took so readily to the Schubert played on the square piano, although I didn't know what to expect as it was my first encounter with that instrument.

[verismissimo]

Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Pianorak.

It would be wonderful if there were more recordings of square pianos. As others have said, the sound world is quite distinct from fortepianos. And they were the domestic instrument of choice for half a century and more - until the arrival of the iron-framed upright.

I have a fine restored Broadwood of 1790 which we use for little concerts at home from time to time. Broadwood became worldwide market leader by the end of the 18th century, a consequence of their innovations in all aspects of the instument - not least the fact that they were better, more robust cabinet makers. Of course, having innovated their way to the top, they lost out in the mid-19th century by sitting back and watching others go past them with fresh innovation.

What other recordings of squares are out there?

[Eudaimonia]

Very interesting, thanks! There are quite a few square piano recordings on Youtube...interesting to listen to for the sound, if nothing else.

SQUARE PIANO VIDEOS on YOUTUBE

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22square+piano%22&aq=f

[Pianorak]

Thanks for the link, Eudaimonia. Interesting and instructive. Hmm, while I still think Peter Katin's 1832 Clementi is just perfect, all the pianos on that link really do not appeal to me. I think square pianos were perhaps a necessary stage in the development from fortepiano to the modern grand - neither one thing nor the other. Maybe that answers my question why they have virtually disappeared from the scene.

[MickyD]

"I have a fine restored Broadwood of 1790"

Oooh, verismissimo, I am SO envious, what a lovely thing to possess! It's been my dream to get hold of one whenever I have the cash or indeed the space.

[verismissimo]

Here's the thing, MickyD. Even good examples are not really expensive. £500-£800 will get a fine instrument. It's the restoration by a good restorer that you need somewhat deeper pockets for. The wonderful Lucy Coad did mine.

[MickyD]

How interesting....I suppose they are relatively inexpensive because so many were made. I'll have to delve into the internet today and do some exploring.

[verismissimo]

There were of course tens of thousands of square pianos around the world, and what happened to them is the same as what happened to wind-up gramophones and more recently fax machines.

Here's one rather extreme example - the Great New York Bonfire of 1904: http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/...piano-holiday/

Many of the surviving instruments were gutted and converted to cocktail cabinet use in the 1960s and after.

Mine was used to display family photographs for over half a century from the 1930s, having been purchased from a pub in Kent for £4.

[Peter Katin]

Hi, pianorak - I agree with you over the Katin disc and find it very sad that we don't have more CDs of square pianos available when one considers how many of them were around in domestic circles at the time. During its regrettably brief life, Athene did a good job in promoting the instrument - Katin did some Clementi as well - and Joanna Leach gave us the (nearly) complete nocturnes of John Field, which I love. I once begged Peter Katin on these boards to do the complete Mendelssohn Songs without Words on his square piano - he told me that it had been on the cards, but with the demise of Athene, it never happened. A great shame, in my opinion.

Well, Athene gave way to Diversions (Divine Art) and the recordings are all there. I think the main problem with the Mendelssohn was that I insisted on having four squares because there was so much variety in the music, but they couldn't come up with them, for some reason. I acquired a Collard & Collard (c.1836) and made a Chopin recording on it, but that I think was the last one I did. It wasn't as earthshaking as I'd hoped!

[Pianorak]

Peter Katin - May I just say that I greatly enjoy playing your Schubert disc as well as various other recordings, including the Liszt Dante Sonata. When may we expect you for a recital at Reading Concert Hall? It's a fine venue!

[Pianorak]

. . . Athene did a good job in promoting the instrument. . .

How square can you get! Just ordered the Athene John Field Nocturnes, Schubert Impromptus and Clementi Sonatas. An early Xmas present to myself!

[Peter Katin]

Peter Katin - May I just say that I greatly enjoy playing your Schubert disc as well as various other recordings, including the Liszt Dante Sonata. When may we expect you for a recital at Reading Concert Hall? It's a fine venue!

Thanks for that. I enjoyed doing the Schubert recordings. I also enjoyed the Liszt but it's still on Olympia and of course, that label has disappeared. I wouldn't mind acquiring it myself if I knew of a company who would reissue it. Reading Concert Hall sounds very tempting! I'll see who can wave the magic wand.

[MickyD]

Well, Athene gave way to Diversions (Divine Art) and the recordings are all there. I think the main problem with the Mendelssohn was that I insisted on having four squares because there was so much variety in the music, but they couldn't come up with them, for some reason. I acquired a Collard & Collard (c.1836) and made a Chopin recording on it, but that I think was the last one I did. It wasn't as earthshaking as I'd hoped!

Hello Peter, thanks for the details - it is good to know that your recordings have resurfaced on Divine Art. To hear that you wanted to use no less than four square pianos on the Mendelssohn project makes it sound even more enticing!

Pianorak, I am sure you will enjoy those discs as much as I do.