Stunning Sibelius Violin Concerto

[Hornspieler]

As we don't speak now, would someone tell HS to get his health checked out.....he is obviously far from well and happy these days.

Meant seriously and with no other reason than stated.

Thank you for your concern Salymap.

Be assured that I am in good order at the moment and in any case I have no desire to share my health problems with these message boards.

HS

[Tony Halstead]

As this has now moved from being initially a discussion to being an argument ( between Ariosto and Hornspieler - in alphabetical order of course) may I make an objective, dispassionate observation, please?
it would be silly of me to 'take sides' since I feel that I know these two posters very well and have frequently found their discussions and their individual postings to be thought-provoking, stimulating and informative.

It seems very clear to me that if HS's original posting was - or was intended to be - a very specific alert to a concert ( Sibelius / Sokolov) on Sky Arts2, then, among the various follow-ups, Ariosto's posting #21 about another concert on Sky Arts2 ( Rite of Spring / Thomas) could be thought of as 'off-topic'
BUT surely, if the overall thread was an attempt to alert M boarders to some interesting concerts on Sky Arts2 rather than a 'closed topic' about that one Sibelius concert, then Ariosto's #21 was a perfectly valid notice of an equally interesting concert that boarders might not have discovered. I don't believe Ariosto's mention of the SFSO's principal viola was intended to make any connection between Mr Sokolov ( violin) and Ms Mather / Walther (viola).

[Ariosto]

As this has now moved from being initially a discussion to being an argument ( between Ariosto and Hornspieler - in alphabetical order of course) may I make an objective, dispassionate observation, please?
it would be silly of me to 'take sides' since I feel that I know these two posters very well and have frequently found their discussions and their individual postings to be thought-provoking, stimulating and informative.

It seems very clear to me that if HS's original posting was - or was intended to be - a very specific alert to a concert ( Sibelius / Sokolov) on Sky Arts2, then, among the various follow-ups, Ariosto's posting #21 about another concert on Sky Arts2 ( Rite of Spring / Thomas) could be thought of as 'off-topic'
BUT surely, if the overall thread was an attempt to alert M boarders to some interesting concerts on Sky Arts2 rather than a 'closed topic' about that one Sibelius concert, then Ariosto's #21 was a perfectly valid notice of an equally interesting concert that boarders might not have discovered. I don't believe Ariosto's mention of the SFSO's principal viola was intended to make any connection between Mr Sokolov ( violin) and Ms Mather / Walther (viola).

Your points are quite valid waldhorn and I had no intention of being argumentative (although I have been critical) with and of HS. His is a perfectly valid point of view - it just differs somewhat to mine, concerning the Sibelius concert. As both these concerts were on Sky Arts 2 and were only about 24 hours or less apart I thought it helpful to draw attention to the San Fancisco concert with the Rite. Especially as it might well be repeated at some point again soon, I would think. I was really just repeating HS's enthusiasm but for a different concert. (Bear in mind that he described in his heading that it was a "Stunning Sibelius Violin Concerto")

And there was definitely no connection between Mr Sokolov's performance and Ms Walther's (apart from enthusiasm for her playing on my part). In any case one was in a solo concerto context and the other in an orchestral section leader's (with some solos) context.

I just wish HS could let up a bit on the headmasterly advice and rule book a little, because as an experienced ex-orchestral horn player he has a lot of very interesting and valid things to say. It just comes over as a little bit of a lecture - but maybe I'm the only one to think that, in which case apologies all round.

[Hornspieler]

Your points are quite valid waldhorn and I had no intention of being argumentative (although I have been critical) with and of HS. His is a perfectly valid point of view - it just differs somewhat to mine, concerning the Sibelius concert. As both these concerts were on Sky Arts 2 and were only about 24 hours or less apart I thought it helpful to draw attention to the San Fancisco concert with the Rite. Especially as it might well be repeated at some point again soon, I would think. I was really just repeating HS's enthusiasm but for a different concert. (Bear in mind that he described in his heading that it was a "Stunning Sibelius Violin Concerto")

And there was definitely no connection between Mr Sokolov's performance and Ms Walther's (apart from enthusiasm for her playing on my part). In any case one was in a solo concerto context and the other in an orchestral section leader's (with some solos) context.

I just wish HS could let up a bit on the headmasterly advice and rule book a little, because as an experienced ex-orchestral horn player he has a lot of very interesting and valid things to say. It just comes over as a little bit of a lecture - but maybe I'm the only one to think that, in which case apologies all round.

That is a very generous post Ariosto, for which I thank you; but I would just like to say in my own defence that you don't have to be a cabinet maker to recognise a bit of shoddy carpentry and, equall, you don't have to be a Royal Academician (R.A) to recognise a beautiful work of art. (But having been married to a Principal violinist for 25 years, I do know quite a bit about string playing and its problems.

Let's call it quits and start again, shall we? As usual, the knowledgable and diplomatic Waldhorn is quite right.

Hornspieler

[Ariosto]

That is a very generous post Ariosto, for which I thank you; but I would just like to say in my own defence that you don't have to be a cabinet maker to recognise a bit of shoddy carpentry and, equall, you don't have to be a Royal Academician (R.A) to recognise a beautiful work of art. (But having been married to a Principal violinist for 25 years, I do know quite a bit about string playing and its problems.

Let's call it quits and start again, shall we? As usual, the knowledgable and diplomatic Waldhorn is quite right.

Hornspieler

HS

I'm sorry to split hairs a little here and I'm sure I'm boring the pants off everyone, but being married (as a horn player) to a string player, does not necessarily mean that you know quite a bit about string playing. You have to play the instrument to a fairly high level to really know the subtleties and insights that may exist. My wife is a pianist but I hesitate to say anything about piano playing other than in broad musical concepts. I may like a certain pianist but I do not often know why - other than in general musical terms. I would never claim to know much about horn playing even having friends and colleages who play the horn. I only know if I think it may be a good sound and in tune, and have good phrasing. But further than that I would be nervous to venture. Of course when they talk about the techniques and subtleties of their instruments I'm interested and may even ask (daft) questions.

Just a thought or two with the best possible motives.

Ariosto.

[french frank]

I think this is what is called forum 'self regulation'. Evviva!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Look out for a repeat on SkyArts2 Tuesday, July 3rd at 14.00. I promise you won't be disappointed.

HS

Well, having recorded this broadcast, I finally got chance to watch it this evening and can only concur with HS as to its qualities. I thought the Sibelius Violin Concerto was remarkably engaging, aided by superb orchestral playing reminding me how fine the COE was for Berglund in his (third) recorded cycle of the Symphonies. Splendid timpani playing underpinning the outer movements. Interesting to spot Richard Hosford and François Leleux in the woodwind section - I had no idea Hosford was one of the founding members of the orchestra. I also agree about Lorenza Borrani as Leader - wonderful communication between her and Ashkenazy.

[Hornspieler]

Well, having recorded this broadcast, I finally got chance to watch it this evening and can only concur with HS as to its qualities. I thought the Sibelius Violin Concerto was remarkably engaging, aided by superb orchestral playing reminding me how fine the COE was for Berglund in his (third) recorded cycle of the Symphonies. Splendid timpani playing underpinning the outer movements. Interesting to spot Richard Hosford and François Leleux in the woodwind section - I had no idea Hosford was one of the founding members of the orchestra. I also agree about Lorenza Borrani as Leader - wonderful communication between her and Ashkenazy.

It is two months since I opened this particular thread (which became more than a little argumentative and is best confined to oblivion).

The currently running forum "Wagner, Sibelius and Tchaikowsky" has no connection, except to say that " ... the best performance since Ida Haendel" has not been surpassed by any performance that I have heard since - including the recent , Sibelius V/C performance from Tuesday's Cadogan Hall RPO concert.

HS

[marvin]

Cannot believe that someone here called Hornspieler hadn't known that Ashkenazy has had a long career as a conductor! This presumably had arisen since problems with flexibility of his fingers due to some medical condition. Most soloist seem to end up conducting some band or other as it's easier than trying to maintain being a top flight soloist.

[Hornspieler]

Cannot believe that someone here called Hornspieler hadn't known that Ashkenazy has had a long career as a conductor! This presumably had arisen since problems with flexibility of his fingers due to some medical condition. Most soloist seem to end up conducting some band or other as it's easier than trying to maintain being a top flight soloist.

I'm afraid you've totally misunderstood what I wrote, Marvin. My reference to Ashkenazy was to praise his rapport as the conductor with the Leader of the COE. Of course I knew about his misfortune as a pianist, which ended his solo career.

I would certainly say that your assertion that conducting is "easier than being a top flight soloist" is very much in error. A soloist can choose what works he wishes to perform. A conductor has to be prepared to conduct a very wide repertoire - much of which would be the choice of the concert promoter rather than his own preference.

Anyway, "someone here called Hornspieler" welcomes your occasional posts to these message boards.

[marvin]

I'm afraid you've totally misunderstood what I wrote, Marvin. My reference to Ashkenazy was to praise his rapport as the conductor with the Leader of the COE. Of course I knew about his misfortune as a pianist, which ended his solo career.

I would certainly say that your assertion that conducting is "easier than being a top flight soloist" is very much in error. A soloist can choose what works he wishes to perform. A conductor has to be prepared to conduct a very wide repertoire - much of which would be the choice of the concert promoter rather than his own preference.

Anyway, "someone here called Hornspieler" welcomes your occasional posts to these message boards.

Well, thanks and I'm sorry I misunderstood you. However, I completely disagree with your assertion about conductor v soloist.
Whilst the latter may have a smaller repertoire, that person will strive and their audience will expect perfection, inasmuch that they should play without too many 'mistakes'. A conductor doesn't have to be note perfect and lets be honest if one were to collapse on the podium and notwithstanding the initial shock, the orchestra, in theory, might be able to continues unaided in the majority of cases. The stress of a top flight soloist and conductor are, in my books, not comparable.

[salymap]

If I may butt in to this discussion, surely the conductor has a different sort of stress/responsibility. He doesn't just conduct the concert, he has studied the score, seen that the parts are correctly marked or bowed, and has probably had to control a hundred or so stroppy musicians at 10am that morning at rehearsal. Neither job is easy,just completely different IMHO. If the orchestra can carry on without him it's because his work was well done earlier.

[amateur51]

If I may butt in to this discussion, surely the conductor has a different sort of stress/responsibility. He doesn't just conduct the concert, he has studied the score, seen that the parts are correctly marked or bowed, and has probably had to control a hundred or so stroppy musicians at 10am that morning at rehearsal. Neither job is easy,just completely different IMHO. If the orchestra can carry on without him it's because his work was well done earlier.

You're right, of course, salymap. The two roles are entirely different and as such are incomparable.

I am full of admiration for both. Certain persons on this Board underestimate the qualities required of a successful conductor, in my view

[Hornspieler]

If I may butt in to this discussion, surely the conductor has a different sort of stress/responsibility. He doesn't just conduct the concert, he has studied the score, seen that the parts are correctly marked or bowed, and has probably had to control a hundred or so stroppy musicians at 10am that morning at rehearsal. Neither job is easy,just completely different IMHO. If the orchestra can carry on without him it's because his work was well done earlier.

Not "butt in to" Salymap but "join in" this discussion.

Your experience and opinions are always of great value to others on this forum.

HS

[marvin]

Don't forget a soloist in most cases plays from memory and doesn't have the score in front of him!