BBC Young Musician of the Year Finals - BBC Four

[Ariosto]

The pianist in the YMotY circus did not get a superb instrument, it was rather out of tune, probably due to the heat of the TV lights. (Top octaves particularly). (Or maybe the TV people, having cloth ears, did not bother to have it tuned).

The cellist would have sounded good on any reasonable instrument, and there was nothing wrong with her fairly newish cello. Of course, a Strad may have sounded better would but would not have changed her interpretation much at all.

I know many fine players who can get used to a new instrument in a matter of a few days - but of course given longer they discover more attributes. I know many top players who are lent instruments just days before an important concert and cope pretty well. In fact one would not know this, but being nosey I often discuss their instrument with them after a concert. I did this with James Ehnes about his loaned Strad and got some valuable info about how often he has it set up (never!) - which goes to show how neurotic some others are ...

I'm told by pianists that unfortunately the Grieg pianist used some strange and not particularly good fingerings and too much use of the thumb. So I'm blaming his teacher probably as much if not more than him. He will of course hopefully improve a lot and with luck be subjected to some good influences in the future, so there is much hope for him. And it goes without saying that any performer who can get up there and play anything of substance from memory is going to be pretty good and we should applaud them for it. Remember that it takes a lot of guts to even think about doing it.

But in the heat of the kitchen they have to accept that they are going to get frequently burnt, and even if we can offer Savlon for the pain, they are going to have to accept it and grow. Either that or become a lawyer or a newpaper executive and join the underworld ...

I find I'm not totally understanding your points, Brassbandmaestro, but that may simply because I'm thick. String players usually use their own instruments for better or worse, and pianists are lumbered with whatever jangly out of tune instruments they are provided with at a concert, unless they are Christian Zimmerman who brings his own piano with changes of actions almost wherever he goes.

But of course in this mamby pamby world of political and all other types of correctness I know that many may disagree with me, but being thick skinned as well I frankly don't give a "you know what."

[aeolium]

I know many fine players who can get used to a new instrument in a matter of a few days - but of course given longer they discover more attributes. I know many top players who are lent instruments just days before an important concert and cope pretty well.

IIRC Hans Keller had a story in one of his books about Oskar Adler, the then concertmaster of the VPO, to the effect that he (Adler) had mislaid his violin and was due to give a concert in the evening (not sure if as soloist or as concertmaster), and he just went round to a local music-shop in Vienna and borrowed a very basic one. Keller's point was that it was not the instrument that was important for the performance but the way Adler played.

[Ariosto]

IIRC Hans Keller had a story in one of his books about Oskar Adler, the then concertmaster of the VPO, to the effect that he (Adler) had mislaid his violin and was due to give a concert in the evening (not sure if as soloist or as concertmaster), and he just went round to a local music-shop in Vienna and borrowed a very basic one. Keller's point was that it was not the instrument that was important for the performance but the way Adler played.

A very good point!

I once asked HK when he arrived at the door of a concert I was stage managing if he had come as a friend of the cellist or a critic. He said "both."

[rodney_h_d]

.....Cellists (indeed more or less ALL musicians apart from Pianists, Organists and Percussionists ) would always play their own instrument , playing a borrowed without having it for a considerable amount of time to practice would be rather "dangerous" .

Laura van der Heijden was on In Tune on Monday and unless I misheard, said that she had been playing her teacher's cello - a much older instrument than her own. It may be that she has played it quite often. Many string players have access to more than one instrument.

[MrGongGong]

Laura van der Heijden was on In Tune on Monday and unless I misheard, said that she had been playing her teacher's cello - a much older instrument than her own. It may be that she has played it quite often. Many string players have access to more than one instrument.

indeed but it would be very odd to borrow one for such a high profile gig

[rodney_h_d]

.....but that's exactly what she did for the competition!

[MrGongGong]

.....but that's exactly what she did for the competition!

that does seem a bit strange ....... (and I am the father of a cellist so know how much these things cost )

[teamsaint]

that does seem a bit strange ....... (and I am the father of a cellist so know how much these things cost )

cellos and cello lessons............worse than house prices in the south of England !!

I am surprised she borrowed the instrument for the final unless either a) she was very familiar with it or B) she was told she would be interviewed by Sean Raffers !

[MrGongGong]

cellos and cello lessons............worse than house prices in the south of England !!
:

Maybe but better investments than any pension fund

(now that she's moved off the whole Elgar thang and is playing the Ligeti sonata )

[rodney_h_d]

You can hear exactly what she said 40 minutes into Monday's In Tune on iPlayer. Her own cello is by Colin Irving of Bristol - her teacher's is 1911 Italian - I didn't get the name of the maker. I would guess that she has played it quite often, but doesn't normally take it home!

[french frank]

I would guess that she has played it quite often, but doesn't normally take it home!

The competition has been going on for months and months. It would surely have been decided right at the beginning which instrument she was going to compete on.

[Ariosto]

The competition has been going on for months and months. It would surely have been decided right at the beginning which instrument she was going to compete on.

Not so at all. I think she played on a fairly modern cello, the Irving (a maker which Raphael Wallfisch used to play) is a good instrument. An Itallian cello of 1911 is considered a modern instrument (as against a contemporary instrument where the maker is still alive) and may or may not be pretty good. As I've said before (yawn) players can change insruments with only a few days notice and do very well. She seemed to be the sort of player that could adapt in a few hours.

It's not usual to play a lot on a teacher's instrument, although sometimes we get the chance to try it for a few minutes. As her Russian teacher lives in Germany it's not likely that she would have extensive use of his main instrument, as surely he has to make a living on it? One does not just teach! (This would be a quick way to end up in the loony bin ....)

[teamsaint]

Maybe but better investments than any pension fund

(now that she's moved off the whole Elgar thang and is playing the Ligeti sonata )

I hope you are right, but in my case, the pension fund don't take much beating !!(and my little cellist decided that History is where the money is )
Will youtube the Ligeti.
Thats the trouble with this board, you pop on to check out the banter, and you end up with two hours worth of recommendations to work through . not enough hours in the day !!

Edit:the Ligeti certainly livens up practice time, i should think. Need to break the speed limit in 2nd mvt !! indeed

[rodney_h_d]

The competition has been going on for months and months. It would surely have been decided right at the beginning which instrument she was going to compete on.

I agree with Ariosto and don't think that's necessarily so. Obviously I don't know, but she may have been playing her own instrument in the early rounds and having reached the final was given the opportunity to use an even more expensive [!] instrument - perhaps with a 'larger' sound - for her concerto performance.

I'm not sure that in this instance 'her teacher' necessarily refers to Leonid Gorokhov, as although he is clearly a very important influence, she also studies in the UK.

[Firebird]

[QUOTE=Ariosto;162929]
I'm told by pianists that unfortunately the Grieg pianist used some strange and not particularly good fingerings and too much use of the thumb. So I'm blaming his teacher probably as much if not more than him.

I'm not a pianist, but I find this notion rather odd. At least in relation to the two instruments I play, fingerings are very personal: there isn't one right way to finger anything. You settle for a fingering based on the requirements of the piece, but just as much, your own hand and body shape, and--I would say--the way your mind works. What seems natural to one person may not make sense to another. What you do has to be something that seems intuitive to you, so you can play it with ease and fluency. The pianist may have arrived at these fingerings himself, or it may be that his teacher suggested them, knowing how the student habitually plays. But I'd doubt the performer was using an awkward fingering solely because his teacher had told him to do so.

My first exposure to the final was when I switched on the radio, not knowing what was on. I came in somewhere in the middle of the Grieg and was arrested. It's a concerto I know well (recently went through a stage of buying lots of recordings and comparing them) and I was struck by the freshness of the interpretation. I listened to the end, not only to hear what the performer was doing, but to find out who it was. I was very surprised to discover it was some youth playing in a competition. I don't know the Walton cello concerto nearly as well, but having gone back and listened to all the performances on the iplayer, it's still the pianist's which catches and holds my interest. The proof of the pudding is in the listening, and to my ear, this youth had something to say. I didn't hear that in the other performances.