BBC Young Musician of the Year Finals - BBC Four

[MrGongGong]

So tell me exactly what is really wrong with trying to be

Celebratory (I'm not saying that the presentation of this show succeeded !)

or / and

non-elitist (granted that this is not a great choice of words , but the intention to demonstrate that great musicians can come from all backgrounds is hardly something to be ashamed of ?)

People (and that includes many in here) wouldn't like TV that was REALLY about music , not anecdotes about Tommy Beecham or travelogues about Chopin going about Europe ........... but about SOUNDS music is composed of them , not "notes".

I'm not saying that this was (or even IS ) a great TV show (and it is a SHOW and always was since Nick Daniel won it at the start onwards .......) but (and i'm not a great TV watcher anyway) what WOULD people choose to watch ?

Personally I choose to watch very little TV (far too busy organising the leftist take over of the state with a crack troop on ninja acousmatic improvisors !)
It's easy to grumble and go on about the good old days.............. from the bits I saw it seemed more or less the same as it ever was

[french frank]

The comments below were unanimously devastating, but why, oh, why (&c.) must people bring in phrases about the 'unwashed masses'? That can only make organisations like the BBC want to adjust the balance away from the 'snobbish elitists'. There is a point to be made about the privileges of (culturally) middle class young people. Trying to spread the advantages is a good thing - just not in the way the BBC tries to do it which does more to damage art music by failing to educate a new, younger audience.

[MrGongGong]

The comments below were unanimously devastating, but why, oh, why (&c.) must people bring in phrases about the 'unwashed masses'? That can only make organisations like the BBC want to adjust the balance away from the 'snobbish elitists'. There is a point to be made about the privileges of (culturally) middle class young people. Trying to spread the advantages is a good thing - just not in the way the BBC tries to do it which does more to damage art music by failing to educate a new, younger audience.

I find it odd that much (not all ) of what the BBC puts out on TV seems to miss
yet much of what they do with the BBCSO et al involving young people is brilliant (and i'm not just plugging my mates gigs for a change !)
so I would make a big distinction between what one sees on TV and what happens in the non- story driven world

[french frank]

I find it odd that much (not all ) of what the BBC puts out on TV seems to miss
yet much of what they do with the BBCSO et al involving young people is brilliant (and i'm not just plugging my mates gigs for a change !)
so I would make a big distinction between what one sees on TV and what happens in the non- story driven world

Yes, outreach work is tremendously valuable - and many organisations get involved in one way or another. But working away quietly in the background isn't showbiz enough for the BBC.

Jessica Duchen was much more restrained in her view, but the message is the same:

"This competition, as Norman Lebrecht has already noted, has failed to ignite attention in the national press. Would it have done so if, instead of being shoe-horned into that Apprentice-like style, it had stayed truer to the nature of its beast within? Then it could have retained, just like a recorder player, its individual niche. But by repositioning itself in too much the vein of other "reality" shows, it's landed itself as a fringe member of a club that doesn't really want to admit it, instead of holding the centre ground of that rare phenomenon, classical music on mainstream TV. "

Steve Bowbrick was bemoaning the fact that the radio industry didn't take much notice of The Spirit of Schubert. Why can't the BBC forget about the irrelevant world outside and concentrate on its audiences - even if (especially if) they are only minorities?

[aeolium]

Personally I choose to watch very little TV.....
It's easy to grumble and go on about the good old days.............. from the bits I saw it seemed more or less the same as it ever was

But if you do watch very little TV then perhaps you're not very aware of how it's changed.

I've watched YMOTY over quite a longish period and it has changed a lot. For one thing there used to be a lot more coverage of it, including the earlier rounds, and there was certainly a lot more time given to the music and less to chat about the musicians. In one of the earlier programmes I watched this year, it was at least 20 minutes into a 90-minute programme before any music was heard. Surely the main point of the programme should be to demonstrate the talent of the performers. Yet the obvious premise of the producers is that the music, the performances in themselves cannot be sufficiently interesting - it must be padded out with extensive biographies and presenter chat. The complaint about this is not being dewy-eyed about the 'good old days' - it's just an irritation that a proper opportunity to see how talented these young musicians are is being missed.

[MrGongGong]

Yes, outreach work is tremendously valuable - and many organisations get involved in one way or another. But working away quietly in the background isn't showbiz enough for the BBC.

I think there are some issues around this whole area.
(this is a tricky one to do with anonymity )

If one separates "Music" from "Music Education" or describes what one does as "Outreach" rather than "Music" then there is a danger that it becomes seen as inferior to "Real Music".
Not all products of "Outreach" projects are worthy of broadcast or even public performance , but that's not a reason NOT to do them. Some of the things that even completely novice young people can create are utterly wonderful and deserve a hearing by a much wider audience. It is interesting to see which music organisations are prioritising work with young people as their funding gets squeezed.

If you want to do the TV thing (and to a lesser extent the radio ) then it's very clear what the "rules" are , be a character, have an interesting "back story" etc etc

[Resurrection Man]

So tell me exactly what is really wrong with trying to be

Celebratory (I'm not saying that the presentation of this show succeeded !)

or / and

non-elitist (granted that this is not a great choice of words , but the intention to demonstrate that great musicians can come from all backgrounds is hardly something to be ashamed of ?)

Absolutely nothing but that misses the point being made by FF and others. In the context of the Telegraph article 'celebratory and non-elitist' in the BBC's eyes is what many of us recognise as shallow, lightweight and most definitely dumbed-down. Listening to a few trails for Radio 6 and also programmes on Radio 4 recently, the BBC seems hellbent on grinding every station down to the lowest common-denominator of 'celebrity 'my favourite toothpaste, music, book, breakfast cereal' and endless tweets and emails that add very little to the listening experience or education. I was tempted to write 'unwashed masses' but realise FF would not approve.

[french frank]

If one separates "Music" from "Music Education" or describes what one does as "Outreach" rather than "Music" then there is a danger that it becomes seen as inferior to "Real Music".

Neverheless, I like the concept of 'Outreach' because it means going out to find your potential audience. It's also informal education getting the students closer to performance and performers; more involving than sitting in a classroom listening to CDs.

If the BBC considers outreach a good idea, I can't understand why throughout the year, the broadcast services targeted on young people don't have any sort of 'classical' music. There seems to be an intrinsic contradiction in that:

Young people don't want 'classical': they want 'pop'. We must strive to make our classical music offer attractive to young people.

They would be much more convincing if they were putting YMotY in the 'non-elitist and celebratory format' on BBC Three and having separate presentation for BBC Four/BBC Two, just as they differentiate Proms coverage between Four and Two, and between television and Radio 3.

[salymap]

ff Your last paragraph really hits the nail on the head [to use a cliche] saly

[amateur51]

Neverheless, I like the concept of 'Outreach' because it means going out to find your potential audience. It's also informal education getting the students closer to performance and performers; more involving than sitting in a classroom listening to CDs.

If the BBC considers outreach a good idea, I can't understand why throughout the year, the broadcast services targeted on young people don't have any sort of 'classical' music. There seems to be an intrinsic contradiction in that:

Young people don't want 'classical': they want 'pop'. We must strive to make our classical music offer attractive to young people.

They would be much more convincing if they were putting YMotY in the 'non-elitist and celebratory format' on BBC Three and having separate presentation for BBC Four/BBC Two, just as they differentiate Proms coverage between Four and Two, and between television and Radio 3.

Well I realise that I am no longer young but I was once and from ages 14-21 (1965-1972) at a guess I'd say that I wanted 'pop' and 'classical'. The BBC had no 'pop' station when I was 14 so I listened to the pirate radio stations. I expected the two formats to be entirely different - that was in part their attraction.

Young people are not stupid and I don't believe that they expect Radio 3 to be aimed at them. They expect it to be aimed at people who enjoy what Radio 3 broadcasts, at a guess.

[french frank]

Young people are not stupid and I don't believe that they expect Radio 3 to be aimed at them. They expect it to be aimed at people who enjoy what Radio 3 broadcasts, at a guess.

No doubt. All it needs is a coherent strategy.

The danger of raising the profile of Radio 3 is that it gets the non-classical audiences slavering over the possibility of taking over swathes of the airtime with anything that they regard as 'quality' music (i.e. what they like). Everyone wants a share of the action to increase their choice. And that means less choice for others.

[BBMmk2]

I am privy to a bit of inside information about the winner! You guys may well remember that I thought nthere was something amiss about the cellist's performance. Well a I spoke to one of my school's violin teachers and she said that in her opinion it was the instrument. Whereas the pianist had one supplkied to him, the cellist did not. She played her own instrument,though very good her playing was, if she waslent a cello for that pefromance, then surely, even more would have been shown about her playing?

[MrGongGong]

I am privy to a bit of inside information about the winner! You guys may well remember that I thought nthere was something amiss about the cellist's performance. Well a I spoke to one of my school's violin teachers and she said that in her opinion it was the instrument. Whereas the pianist had one supplkied to him, the cellist did not. She played her own instrument,though very good her playing was, if she waslent a cello for that pefromance, then surely, even more would have been shown about her playing?

I'm not sure what you mean at all ?
Cellists (indeed more or less ALL musicians apart from Pianists, Organists and Percussionists ) would always play their own instrument , playing a borrowed without having it for a considerable amount of time to practice would be rather "dangerous" .

[BBMmk2]

WEll yes, that is what i said to that teacher, and she did agree. Buteven pianists have to get to know the various idiosyncracies of any given piano?

[MrGongGong]

WEll yes, that is what i said to that teacher, and she did agree. Buteven pianists have to get to know the various idiosyncracies of any given piano?

Of course
even if you are doing this with it !

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