BBC Young Musician of the Year Finals - BBC Four

[Hornspieler]

fgh: I'm absolutely not saying that recorder-players don't deserve a chance - just that, IMHO at least, they face an extra-tough job in a concerto finale.

My point (if I have one ) is that having got there their repertoire doesn't give them much opportunity to show the same degree of personality and expressiveness that most standard orchestral instruments and piano do. Not their fault: it's partly the repertoire but also in my view a 'problem' with the instrument. Perhaps my point is clearer in relation to the Grieg pf conc: I don't think this gives any soloist - fully professional just as a much as student - such a chance to show wide musicality as the Walton cello concerto did.

HS

[Mary Chambers]

I still think that although the cellist played very well indeed , I thought she lackeduscianship and the pianist had loads of it! Just goes to show how different people perceive any individual performance on occasions such as these.

I thought exactly the opposite!

[MrGongGong]

There is a very fine line between rubato and distortion.

As this is a discussion of sonic phenomena
i'm not sure that you mean "distortion" in an acoustic sense ?

[Hornspieler]

As this is a discussion of sonic phenomena
i'm not sure that you mean "distortion" in an acoustic sense ?

This is a discussion upon Musical Performance and Interpretation

Rubato is where the performer creates a little space for effect, but if he/she does not pay that space back almost immediately the music becomes distorted

It's a question of paying back what you have just borrowed; in order to maintain the flow of the music.

HS

[MrGongGong]

This is a discussion upon Musical Performance and Interpretation

Rubato is where the performer creates a little space for effect, but if he/she does not pay that space back almost immediately the music becomes distorted

It's a question of paying back what you have just borrowed; in order to maintain the flow of the music.

HS

I know that
but I would not use the word "distortion" as that (to me ) is a specific acoustic phenomena

[Bryn]

I know that
but I would not use the word "distortion" as that (to me ) is a specific acoustic phenomena

Ouch! "phenonenon", please.

[amateur51]

2) Grieg piano concerto. Again, playing the notes according to the score pretty much gives you the work. When you think about it, how different are the great recorded perfomances of this work? Nothing like as much as great performances of Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms piano conc's, or even of the Schumann, the standard LP coupling for the Grieg. Yesterday's soloist did well at presenting the notes 'in the right order' a la Eric Morecambe, but there still wasn't that much scope to show personal musicianship beyond this.

Could it not be that the very familiarity of the piece to most listeners means that a truly musical performance will still have the capacity to excite or amuse the listener in its individuality?

There are so many well-know places, rather like the 'A Handbag?!' line as performed by Dame Edith Evans in Anthony Asquith's film of Wilde's 'The Importance of Being Earnest', where the performer can either acknowldge or defy 'tradition'. I've heard these done in so many different ways over the years. The tale is that Percy Grainger, who played the piece often, would sometimes leap from his seat while the orchestra was churning itself up into a fine old frenzy, race to the far left of the stage, turn and race back to the piano and jump onto the stool just in time to go into his solo section! I'm not recommending it but eat your heart out LangLang

[MrGongGong]

Ouch! "phenonenon", please.

Sorry, far too engrossed in my leftist conspiracy this morning

[Curalach]

Ouch! "phenonenon", please.

Is that the technical word for a very long piece that goes phenon-enon-enon-enon?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.............. al .................. li ........................ly

[Barbirollians]

I agree with ariosto's comments from the ether . I thought she showed an astonishingly mature attitude and understanding of the work for a 15 year old soloist and the Walton is not a concerto for display unlike say the Shostakovich 1 with which Guy Johnston wowed the audience a few years back or such a favourite as to enable Natalie Clein to win with a very good Elgar .

She shone at the instrumental semi-final stage too .

She sent me back to listen to Tortelier in the work and I think it says a lot for such a performance that she has had listeners going back to listen to the work again - as another poster did with the Piatigorsky .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

fgh: I'm absolutely not saying that recorder-players don't deserve a chance - just that, IMHO at least, they face an extra-tough job in a concerto finale.

Thanks for this reply, LMP - I wrote after a very long and nasty day and long after my usual bedtime.
I think what you say here is quite right - the Recorder Concerto as a genre rarely shows off the instrument's potential as well as more intimate chamber and ensemble works do. And then, of course, there is the problem of performing with a modern instrument orchestra with, perhaps, less experience of playing this repertoire than it does concertos from the Nineteenth Century.

Mind you, I'd say the same about the Violin - far "better" works written for it in the Chamber Music repertoire than in the Concerto genre - which leads to an OT (and perhaps OTT) aside: why, in a biennial competition of young musicianship is there no category/opportunity for Chamber Music performance? (Not the "Solo with Piano accompaniment" of the "heats", but a genuine feature allowing the contestants to make Music together, not in competition with each other.)

My point (if I have one ) is that having got there their repertoire doesn't give them much opportunity to show the same degree of personality and expressiveness that most standard orchestral instruments and piano do.

Perhaps so in the Concerto repertoire (and therefore, in the context of this competition) but in my own HO, Baroque Chamber Music has tons more "personality and expressiveness" than the vast majority of Nineteenth Century "powerhouse" Concerto.


Best Wishes.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

despite the curtailment of the proceedings on telly and the usual about the editroial and presentational stances etc etc .... this year's competition was rather a good one and the right one won too

[Bryn]

Is that the technical word for a very long piece that goes phenon-enon-enon-enon?

Not so much "a very long piece" but the less musically relevant aspect of this thread was the intended target. It did start out as a typo, but when the spelling checker highlighted it, I decided it should stay for its allusive potential.

[Mr Pee]

I don't agree that the Grieg does not allow a performer to show musicianship. The best recordings do exactly that- I am thinking of Leif Ove Andsnes' CD, which is temendous. His touch and gradations of tone, as well as subtle use of rubato, are superb. And if you cannot show musicality in the wonderful slow movement, then you're in the wrong profession. I'm with Mary Chambers here - I found the pianist very mechanical, and the cellist less so, although I would not give her the rave reviews that some here have done.