Stanisław Skrowaczewski and the Hallé Orchestra

[HighlandDougie]

Nagano is a far finer Musician than Elder, IMO;

Contentious stuff, FHG, as I'm not sure that the members of the orchestra would agree with you. Hallé concerts, often conducted by Mark Elder, were one of the great pleasures of the three or so years I spent working in Manchester in the noughties. Whatever else one might have thought about the musical qualities of his interpretations, it was pretty obvious that there was a very good rapport between conductor and orchestra. The quality of orchestral playing under Elder was consistently fine (in anything from Haydn through Mahler to H K Gruber) and, if nothing else, he has restored both the reputation and the morale of the orchestra.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Fair points all, Dougie; and, as I said, the RVW excerpt was absolutely captivating, so perhaps I've reached a Damascus moment. (And I've previously avoided mentioning my "underwhelm-ment" by Elder's performances on these Threads as he has so many admirers - but Tevot's provocative comment ... err ... provoked! )

[Ariosto]

I would have to say that I never liked the Halle's performances under Stanisław Skrowaczewski - and perhaps I should not mention it, but I find them equally poor under Elder.

[Tevot]

Was I meaning to be contentious? Not really - I celebrate the fact that under Elder the Halle has a high profile - and is one of at least three fine ensembles (Manchester Camerata, and BBC Phil included) that the city and region can be proud of. What with the Beeb now in Salford, two major football teams and two Universities of fine repute - the story is surely a happy one:-)

If only I could say the same of Leeds ;-)

I like Elder - I remember from earlier in the year an address he made at a concert dedicated to Paavo Berglund's memory - and his interview with Andrew Macgregor on a recent CD Review most certainly whetted my appetite for the other RVW symphonies he and the Halle have recorded ( I'd guess 3, 5 and 8?) - though it was interesting to hear Elder's views about Sinfonia Antarctica. Loved Elder's recording of Gotterdammerung and on the basis of what I've heard of Die Walkure - my finances will be taking a hit in the very near future when Brunnhilde comes a calling - demanding payment!

Re the Halle under Mark Elder - I'm with Dougie on this one - and re your Damascus moment Ferneyhoughgeliebte - I'd love to call you Saint Paul!

If that is too provocative - I'll settle for Brian -:)

Best wishes,

Tevot

[HighlandDougie]

I would have to say that I never liked the Halle's performances under Stanisław Skrowaczewski - and perhaps I should not mention it, but I find them equally poor under Elder.

Clearly Manchester audiences and members of the Hallé have cloth ears to match their cloth caps (it being 'oop north) as they've only put up with "poor" performances for the past 12 years. And the LPO, the ROH and other orchestras have also clearly been duped. While matters of musical interpretation are clearly a matter of taste, sweeping generalisations were something I thought that I had left behind when I was about 17 but, hey, maybe Ariosto is really Adrian Mole.

[Tevot]

Steady on Dougie - In Bradford nowadays we have neither cloth , nor caps - nor ears!

[Ariosto]

Clearly Manchester audiences and members of the Hallé have cloth ears to match their cloth caps (it being 'oop north) as they've only put up with "poor" performances for the past 12 years. And the LPO, the ROH and other orchestras have also clearly been duped. While matters of musical interpretation are clearly a matter of taste, sweeping generalisations were something I thought that I had left behind when I was about 17 but, hey, maybe Ariosto is really Adrian Mole.

Well I will try and answer this as best I can, seeing as it makes a lot of rather silly assumptions.

In the "past 12 years" (I presume that's the time Elder has been there) the Halle will have surely worked with other conductors, and even if only a few, some might have been pretty good. No orchestra works only with its principal conductor as far as I know?

I did point out that my opinion of the two conductors I mentioned was mine and I do not recall making any sweeping generaisations, as you claim, since I did not go into any detail other than saying I did not rate the aformentioned conductors. As it happens, and I'm pleased to acknowledge, I do know members of the orchestra who do not share my opinions. (Only one in fact, but there may be more).

You appear not to have left behind your generalisations, so do we take it that you are about 17?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If only I could say the same of Leeds

Well, not so much quantity, perhaps, but with Richard Farnes and Opera North, they do pretty well. (I understand there was/is a Ring cycle that Mr Elder is conducting on the other side of the Pennines. Bless. I'm sure they're all doing their very best.)

Elder['s ... ] interview with Andrew Macgregor on a recent CD Review most certainly whetted my appetite for the other RVW symphonies he and the Halle have recorded ( I'd guess 3, 5 and 8?) - though it was interesting to hear Elder's views about Sinfonia Antarctica.

I was sure he mentioned doing the Ninth rather than the Eighth (ironic if he omitted this, though!)

re your Damascus moment Ferneyhoughgeliebte - I'd love to call you Saint Paul!

I'd really rather you didn't! ("Ferney"/"Fhg" or even, at a pinch, "Andie" are much preferable - and save a lot of typing time! )

If that is too provocative - I'll settle for Brian -

This was tried, I remember, on the old BBC MBs: the confusion when I was talking about Ferneyhough's Music (and when the Gothic Symphony came into the discussion as well) was all too much!

Best Wishes.

[HighlandDougie]

Well I will try and answer this as best I can, seeing as it makes a lot of rather silly assumptions.

In the "past 12 years" (I presume that's the time Elder has been there) the Halle will have surely worked with other conductors, and even if only a few, some might have been pretty good. No orchestra works only with its principal conductor as far as I know?

I did point out that my opinion of the two conductors I mentioned was mine and I do not recall making any sweeping generaisations, as you claim, since I did not go into any detail other than saying I did not rate the aformentioned conductors. As it happens, and I'm pleased to acknowledge, I do know members of the orchestra who do not share my opinions. (Only one in fact, but there may be more).

You appear not to have left behind your generalisations, so do we take it that you are about 17?

Hmm, a comment along the lines of finding the Halle's performances equally poor under Mark Elder as well as Stanislaw Skrowacewski strikes me as being a bit of a sweeping generalisation unless you are prepared to substantiate it but, as I assume that you haven't actually heard many of them, I defer to your judgement. And, yes, Mark Elder has been Principal Conductor since 2000 and, yes, the orchestra has worked with other conductors. Anyway, enough of this nonsense. "Rather silly" - fine, happy to go along with that.

[kuligin]

I have attended some Halle concerts in every year since 1970, just caught the tail end of Barbirolli, and have happy memories of performances by all his successors , highlights for me

Handford Elgar Apostles
Handford Janacek Sinfonietta
Loughran

[kuligin]

Dont know what happened there cut off in mid stream

I was going to say Loughran in Brahms and a magnificent Mahler 6, Stan in Berg Lulu Symphony and Bruckner, Nagano was more mixed I liked the Messiaen Poemes pour Mi and Ives he introduced but he was less happy in the core repertoire

As for Elder I am an unabashed fan, not only the Wagner and Elgar but in works not associated with him like Haydn, Rakmaninov but also his commitment to the orchestra , standards generally have not been higher, which has resulted in good performances from visiting conductors, the Beethoven 8 of Gardiner was exceptional but then so was Elder himself Beethoven 1

Not every thing is perfect but we owe a great debt for what he has achieved

As for Opera North , the comparison with the Halle is almost risible, some of the performances by Opera North last season in Tchaikovsky and Bellini were pretty hard going. I certainly wont be going to a concert performance by them in Wagner

[Ariosto]

I have attended some Halle concerts in every year since 1970, just caught the tail end of Barbirolli, and have happy memories of performances by all his successors , highlights for me

Handford Elgar Apostles
Handford Janacek Sinfonietta
Loughran

In fact I played for Barbirolli and a lot for Maurice Handford. (Not in the Halle I should add).

I was pretty impressed by Barbirolli and I found it sad that MH died so young from cancer.

I only know of but do not know the work of the other conductors.

Highlanddougie

Good that we can leave it at that.

P.S. I'm not a great lover of any conductor, but I suppose there are just a few that I respect.

[amateur51]

P.S. I'm not a great lover of any conductor, but I suppose there are just a few that I respect.

Really?

Very pleased to hear that Glorious John gets your seal of approval Ariosto

[amateur51]

As for Opera North , the comparison with the Halle is almost risible, some of the performances by Opera North last season in Tchaikovsky and Bellini were pretty hard going. I certainly wont be going to a concert performance by them in Wagner

Cheers kuligin, I have a ticket for the forthcoming Die Walküre.

I enjoyed Das Rheingold in Leeds last year

[kuligin]

Well it is always rash to condemn without hearing, and I did not attend the Rhinegold but orchestral standards in the Tchaikovsky on the night I heard it were pretty rough, but not as approximate as those of the hero and heroine!

And of course Opera North have become Musicals South for the Summer, which may not be the best preparation for the Ring