Bruckner 8 Berlin Staatskapelle/Barenboim April 17

[euthynicus]

It would probably have had more impact in the hall.

It didn't. Among several things it lacked (decent playing, coherent tempi and cumulative tension come to mind) impact was a little down the list of absentees. My favourite bit was the window on Schoenberg immediately after the climax of the slow movement when the violins couldn't read whether he was in four or two. I did honestly like the grinding dissonance that resulted, though it was more authentic to the finale of the Ninth. I remember when they did a Brahms cycle at the RFH a few years ago - the trumpet playing wasn't any better then, but at least you could hear more of the woodwind. The frustrating thing was that the performance fitfully threatened to do something interesting - at the very beginning, in the trio, and that half-lit turning point of the Adagio - but then the endless sostenuto supervened and robbed us again of a proper sense of the work's shape. Still, apparently 7 was better, and I look forward to 9.

[jayne lee wilson]

To open out my comments a little - via my usual system (Macbook to Cambridge DacMagic via glassfibre optical cable, ATC Pre/Power amps, Harbeth Compact 7 Speakers, listening to HDs 320kbps AAC via iTunes, no dropouts) - I heard a very transparent sound, with clear wind detail, string counterpoints well-balanced; an orchestra founded on a full, rounded, well-defined if slightly dry bass, with a dark, full, slightly throaty character to the lower brass - the word ruminative often came to mind! A spacious perspective and a good dynamic range.

I've not always been at one with Barenboim's approach to tempo and phrasing in Bruckner, but tonight he judged the momentum of the performance better than I've ever heard him, in any Bruckner, before: his rubato seemed very natural to me, within a smoothly flowing pace overall; the work's main climaxes - the apocalyptic vision before the 1st movement coda, the arrival on the mountaintop in the trio - were very fulfilling, without resort to anything overtly spectacular; this was an entirely unshowy performance. His basic tempi for both scherzo and adagio were, for me, tempo giusto - just right; I certainly didn't hear an "endless sostenuto" here. I liked his exploration of all those quieter string interludes in the finale - there was no impatience to return to the drama of brass and drums. This is why I wonder about the idea of "cumulative tension" as Euthynicus puts it, in this, or any, Bruckner finale. As Robert Simpson puts it,

"the massive endings of all Bruckner's symphonies are (with the exception of that of the 5th) not really culminative in the old sense; they are formal intensifications that blaze with calm. Even in the 5th there is ultimately this sense of calm fire."

Which brings me to my one difficulty with Barenboim's reading: not for the first time in this symphony, he allows the excitement of the final coda to get the better of him, and speeds up a little too much; the tempo here doesn't emerge naturally enough from the finely-judged events preceding it. Yet given the momentousness of those last pages, I'm inclined - well, almost - to forgive him.

Haven't we all become a bit spoiled by spectacle, by gleaming, rolls-royce orchestral displays of Brucknerian power and glory, to forget that it can be done with greater character? Character, calmly revealing, was what Barenboim brought to the music tonight. With time to stand and stare, time for "patience" - as perhaps Schuricht, and Georg Tintner have, in their very different ways, both shown.

[Bryn]

Well, with the closing applause and some of the inter-movement kerfuffle removed, the performance fits nicely on an 80 minute CD-R. Too late to give it another go tonight, but might find time tomorrow.

[Hornspieler]

To open out my comments a little - via my usual system (Macbook to Cambridge DacMagic via glassfibre optical cable, ATC Pre/Power amps, Harbeth Compact 7 Speakers, listening to HDs 320kbps AAC via iTunes, no dropouts) - I heard a very transparent sound, with clear wind detail, string counterpoints well-balanced; an orchestra founded on a full, rounded, well-defined if slightly dry bass, with a dark, full, slightly throaty character to the lower brass - the word ruminative often came to mind! A spacious perspective and a good dynamic range.

All that equipment! I just listen to the music.

I've not always been at one with Barenboim's approach to tempo and phrasing in Bruckner, but tonight he judged the momentum of the performance better than I've ever heard him, in any Bruckner, before: ....
.....Which brings me to my one difficulty with Barenboim's reading: not for the first time in this symphony, he allows the excitement of the final coda to get the better of him, and speeds up a little too much; the tempo here doesn't emerge naturally enough from the finely-judged events preceding it. Yet given the momentousness of those last pages, I'm inclined - well, almost - to forgive him.

Haven't we all become a bit spoiled by spectacle, by gleaming, rolls-royce orchestral displays of Brucknerian power and glory, to forget that it can be done with greater character? Character, calmly revealing, was what Barenboim brought to the music tonight. With time to stand and stare, time for "patience" - as perhaps Schuricht, and Georg Tintner have, in their very different ways, both shown.

I've always admired Rolls Royce and Bentley for their superb but unflashy performance. I would like to say the same about Barenbohm, but whilst I regard him as a great pianist and a fine musician, I think he is greatly overrated as a conductor and interpreter.

For me, he will never qualify for the appellation "Maestro" but I do acknowledge his great contribution to music and especially to young musicians. That being said, whilst realising that the Berlin State Orchestra is not quite in the same league as the Berlin Philharmonic or the Vienna Philharmonic, Mr Barenbohm will never (IMO) achieve the status (and the performances) of Bruno Walter, Jascha Horenstein or Herbert von Karajan in Bruckner and Mahler performances and I would even say that Sir Simon Rattle achieves more with those "heavyweight" composers.

Still, I enjoyed listening to that wonderful Bruckner sound and those Wagner Tubas in full song, but my preference will always be for Horenstein's (live) recording of Bruckners 8th with the LSO.

HS

[gedsmk]

I wonder if the morale of the orchestra was a bit thrown by the missing cellists? one rushed on to the stage behind the conductor at the start, but the other two never appeared. otherwise I greatly enjoyed the peformance and there was plenty of impact from what I heard sitting in the choir seats!

[John Skelton]

All that equipment! I just listen to the music.

If you weren't at the concert that's quite a trick. Does it just spontaneously flood in?

[Bryn]

As expected, the audio quality via the iPlayer's HD Sound option is a very considerable improvement on Freeview and FM. However, it does nothing to change my somewhat negative reaction to the performance.

[amateur51]

If you weren't at the concert that's quite a trick. Does it just spontaneously flood in?

[Petrushka]

I wonder if the morale of the orchestra was a bit thrown by the missing cellists? one rushed on to the stage behind the conductor at the start, but the other two never appeared. otherwise I greatly enjoyed the peformance and there was plenty of impact from what I heard sitting in the choir seats!

I've just had a look on the photographs I took after the concert and 8 cellists are visible while the programme book listed 13, presumably a pool to choose from. Standard numerical strength is 10, I think, so not sure what happened. What I can say is that from my seat high up in box 10, Green side the cellos produced a lovely, warm and song-like sound.

I can't add much to JLW's excellent review in message 17. This was a typical German sound for Bruckner and a blend I find especially appropriate. Yes, you can have minor quibbles about Barenboim's interpretation but I greatly enjoyed it.

[jayne lee wilson]

All that equipment! I just listen to the music.



I've always admired Rolls Royce and Bentley for their superb but unflashy performance. I would like to say the same about Barenbohm, but whilst I regard him as a great pianist and a fine musician, I think he is greatly overrated as a conductor and interpreter.

For me, he will never qualify for the appellation "Maestro" but I do acknowledge his great contribution to music and especially to young musicians. That being said, whilst realising that the Berlin State Orchestra is not quite in the same league as the Berlin Philharmonic or the Vienna Philharmonic, Mr Barenbohm will never (IMO) achieve the status (and the performances) of Bruno Walter, Jascha Horenstein or Herbert von Karajan in Bruckner and Mahler performances and I would even say that Sir Simon Rattle achieves more with those "heavyweight" composers.

Still, I enjoyed listening to that wonderful Bruckner sound and those Wagner Tubas in full song, but my preference will always be for Horenstein's (live) recording of Bruckners 8th with the LSO.

HS

Well HS - "superb but unflashy" would be a very good description of Tuesday night's Bruckner 8, also of ATC - you could think of the latter as the Rolls-Royce of amplifiers (though they would NOT appreciate such a description themselves!), but they are rather better value, especially if purchased secondhand, and as far as I know have never needed to rush about looking for foreign investment to rescue them...

[amateur51]

Well HS - "superb but unflashy" would be a very good description of Tuesday night's Bruckner 8, also of ATC - you could think of the latter as the Rolls-Royce of amplifiers (though they would NOT appreciate such a description themselves!), but they are rather better value, especially if purchased secondhand, and as far as I know have never needed to rush about looking for foreign investment to rescue them...

[Bryn]

Well HS - "superb but unflashy" would be a very good description of Tuesday night's Bruckner 8, also of ATC - you could think of the latter as the Rolls-Royce of amplifiers (though they would NOT appreciate such a description themselves!), but they are rather better value, especially if purchased secondhand, and as far as I know have never needed to rush about looking for foreign investment to rescue them...

jlw, it is important to bear in mind that HS was always quite happy to turn up for work with an old tin plate watering can, rather than his french horn.

[Hornspieler]

JLW:

Well HS - "superb but unflashy" would be a very good description of Tuesday night's Bruckner 8, also of ATC - you could think of the latter as the Rolls-Royce of amplifiers (though they would NOT appreciate such a description themselves!), but they are rather better value, especially if purchased secondhand, and as far as I know have never needed to rush about looking for foreign investment to rescue them...

I was not referring to your choice of equipment, Jayne.

jlw, it is important to bear in mind that HS was always quite happy to turn up for work with an old tin plate watering can, rather than his french horn.

Did you know that it is possible to play Weber's Huntsman's Chorus on a watering can, Bryn, and you can select your key by adding or subtracting water?

HS

(You can't upset me. I've been insulted by experts!)

[Alison]

What about Daniel's assertion that the scherzo isn't a scherzo ?

It's a Bruckner scherzo but a scherzo nonetheless isnt it ??

[Nick Armstrong]

Did you know that it is possible to play Weber's Huntsman's Chorus on a watering can, Bryn, and you can select your key by adding or subtracting water?

HS

(You can't upset me. I've been insulted by experts!)

I'm surprised you even need a watering can, I once heard Peter Clack (did you know him, HS?) play 'Ride of the Valkyries' on a simple garden hose...

I thought that was why the government brought in a hosepipe ban

No?