Bruckner 8 Berlin Staatskapelle/Barenboim April 17

[Petrushka]

I'm going to this one and really looking forward to it! The recorder already set for the R3 broadcast.

[Chris Newman]

I enjoyed very much the televised complete Barenboim Bruckner symphonies from Berlin broadcast on Arte Live around Christmas. Have a good evening out. I shall be at my local Odeon watching the ROH relay of Rigoletto.

[Richard Tarleton]

I'm going to this one and really looking forward to it! The recorder already set for the R3 broadcast.

Let us know! Have you heard his new 7 yet?

[Petrushka]

Let us know! Have you heard his new 7 yet?

Not yet, Richard. I'm planning on buying it while down in London. The last Berlin orchestra I heard in the RFH in Bruckner 8 was Karajan and the BPO on 1979. I'm not expecting as memorable an evening as that was but you can all judge for yourselves by tuning in to R3 at 7.30.

[Bryn]

From the schedule page, "(vers. composite, ed. Haas)". That does seem a more apposite description of the Haas edition than we normally get, but does the "ed." include composition of linking material in this case? As I understand it, the jury is still out on this question.

[jayne lee wilson]

From the schedule page, "(vers. composite, ed. Haas)". That does seem a more apposite description of the Haas edition than we normally get, but does the "ed." include composition of linking material in this case? As I understand it, the jury is still out on this question.

No, he didn't compose it - he restored some short passages from the 1887 score that Bruckner, influenced by Hermann levi and others, had cut in the revision. That's what is meant by "composite". Robert Simpson discusses it at length in Chapter 10 of The Essence of Bruckner. He makes the point that the 1955 Nowak edition "removes the passages restored by Haas, on the unassailable gound that mixing of sources is not permissible"; but then continues "we cannot be sure how much of what he wrote himself (or in this case excised himself) is the result of external pressure. There are times when artistic judgment must supersede strict musicology."

[jayne lee wilson]

A wonderful Bruckner 8 from Barenboim and The Berlin Staatskapelle - greatly played, greatly relayed.
(HDs AAC via iTunes).

Sibelius said that his 4th Symphony had "nothing of the circus about it." Tonight's Bruckner was, I feel, in the same vein. If there is such a thing as the sound of old Berlin, I think we heard it tonight.
A minor interpretative cavil or two, perhaps - but I feel too grateful to mention them now.

[Bryn]

No, he didn't compose it - he restored some short passages from the 1887 score that Bruckner, influenced by Hermann levi and others, had cut in the revision. That's what is meant by "composite". Robert Simpson discusses it at length in Chapter 10 of The Essence of Bruckner. He makes the point that the 1955 Nowak edition "removes the passages restored by Haas, on the unassailable gound that mixing of sources is not permissible"; but then continues "we cannot be sure how much of what he wrote himself (or in this case excised himself) is the result of external pressure. There are times when artistic judgment must supersede strict musicology."

Ah, but did Haas not compose some links in the 'restoration' process? I am aware that some argue that Haas had exclusive access to sketches in Bruckner's hand, but where is the evidence? Frankly, I am happier with the 2 Nowak editions as separate versions. Bruckner was not the soft touch that it used to be fashionable to make him out to be. Certainly he was hurt by Levi's rejection of the 1887 score, but there is little real evidence that either Levi or Schalk played a direct role in the particulars of Bruckner's 1890 revision that I know of.

By the way, I though tonight's performance a bit of a let-down. To my ears it lacked integration.

[Steerpike]

A beautiful performance I thought.

On the never-ending questions of Bruckner editions, I've found Korstvedt (Cambridge Music Handbooks - Bruckner Symphony 8) very interesting. He's a Nowak man and sees Simpson, Cooke etc as offering dubious arguments for Haas. I must say, listening to Haas this evening with my Nowak score, I'm not sure the differences are worth a war, interesting though they are.

[Bryn]

A beautiful performance I thought.

...

.

It certainly had its moments, but for me they were too episodic, and I am not placing the blame for that on Haas but on maestro Barenboim, a musician I hold in high regard.

[Bryn]

...

(HDs AAC via iTunes).

...

I started with Freeview (from my Panasonic Blu-ray recorders tuner) but could not get on with the sound quality and switched to FM, which was a least a little more mellow. I will try via the iPlayer in HD Sound later. I have had too many drop-out experiences listening live in HD Sound here.

[Steerpike]

Yes, I know what you mean Bryn.

I hear Bruckner performances (this is far from an original thought) along a continuum of non-interventionist (like late Celibidache) to interventionist (like Skrowaczewski). This was certainly towards the interventionist (episodic if you like) end but I like to hear performances from anywhere on the continuum - as long as they're by good musicians. All good performances help me work with the music in my own mind. I know I'm asking for trouble using 'good' here with the problem of introducing circularity - but it's approaching Horlicks time so it's the best I can do!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah, but did Haas not compose some links in the 'restoration' process?

Bars 609 - 616 of Haas' Finale are entirely Haas' own work to make a transition from one genuine Bruckner passage in A major to another in c minor. In at least one Furtwangler recording, this passage is omitted; Karajan kept it and made it sound authentic. Details are in the Korstvedt book mentioned by Steerpike in #9.

[ahinton]

A wonderful Bruckner 8 from Barenboim and The Berlin Staatskapelle - greatly played, greatly relayed.
(HDs AAC via iTunes).

Sibelius said that his 4th Symphony had "nothing of the circus about it." Tonight's Bruckner was, I feel, in the same vein. If there is such a thing as the sound of old Berlin, I think we heard it tonight.
A minor interpretative cavil or two, perhaps - but I feel too grateful to mention them now.

Agreed on all counts!

[Dave2002]

I started with Freeview (from my Panasonic Blu-ray recorders tuner) but could not get on with the sound quality and switched to FM, which was a least a little more mellow. I will try via the iPlayer in HD Sound later. I have had too many drop-out experiences listening live in HD Sound here.

I had one drop out on the HD stream, maybe 5 seconds. I'm glad others liked it. I found it a bit ordinary, though it picked up for the slow movement and the finale. It would probably have had more impact in the hall.