Blood, guts, sex, bulls and smugglers

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So the end justifies the means?

[Bert Coules]

Look, this is a pantomime. It might have splendid music and lofty ideals, but it's still a pantomime. Do you complain when the Ugly Sisters are humiliated, the Giant killed, Snow White's evil stepmother destroyed, the Witch burned in her own oven and all the rest, all in the name of good triumphing over evil? Of course the villain must be defeated. Of course the end justifies the means.

The Queen of the Night urges Pamina to stab Sarastro to death. If the show had been intended the way Flosshilde suggests, if the Queen had been a good character, if the scheme had been successful, would you have cheered? Of course you would.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Look, this is a pantomime. It might have splendid music and lofty ideals, but it's still a pantomime. Do you complain when the Ugly Sisters are humiliated, the Giant killed, Snow White's evil stepmother destroyed, the Witch burned in her own oven and all the rest, all in the name of good triumphing over evil? Of course the villain must be defeated. Of course the end justifies the means.

.

You obviously have not read The Politically Correct Book of Bedtime Stories by James Finn Garner

[Flosshilde]

Look, this is a pantomime.

Is it a pantomime? I know that's how it's often played, but is that the intention of Mozart?

the villain must be defeated.

You imply that the QotN is a 'villain'. My point is that Sarastro could easily be played as the villain, & the opera woulod make as much, if not more, sense.

[Flosshilde]

That's strange - when I clicked on 'reply with quote' on Bert's message, the quote includes the following -

"The Queen of the Night urges Pamina to stab Sarastro to death. If the show had been intended the way Flosshilde suggests, if the Queen had been a good character, if the scheme had been successful, would you have cheered? Of course you would."

which doesn't appear in the original message.

[Bert Coules]

...which doesn't appear in the original message.

Er... yes it does!

I reckon you can skew any number of dramas by reversing the good and bad characters. I've seen that contented married couple Hunding and Sieglinde have their lives absolutely ruined when a wildly-dressed raving maniac forces himself into their house, overwhelms Mrs Hunding with the force of his personality and then drags her out into the woods... That and similar approaches can be interesting and perhaps even revelatory, but I'd hate anyone coming to a work for the first time to see it done like that.

[Flosshilde]

It does now, but it didn't earlier

[Bert Coules]

You must have caught me mid-edit.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Rutland Boughton's "Bethlehem" was given a performance, with Jesus being born in a miner's cottage, rather than in a stable in Bethlehem. It caused great offence at the time, but in some ways put the Christmas story into a contemporary context.

[Roehre]

Give me Poulenc's Dialogues des Carmélites every time

At least the issues are clear cut!

Seconded. Very clear cut, if I may say so :)

[Flosshilde]

You must have caught me mid-edit.

I wondered if it was anything to do with you editing/changing your message - just as you did with the subsequent one. The facility to substantially change a message after someone has responded to it could create problems.

[Flosshilde]

I've seen that contented married couple Hunding and Sieglinde have their lives absolutely ruined when a wildly-dressed raving maniac forces himself into their house, overwhelms Mrs Hunding with the force of his personality and then drags her out into the woods... That and similar approaches can be interesting and perhaps even revelatory, but I'd hate anyone coming to a work for the first time to see it done like that.

But such an interpretation would ignore the fact that Sieglinde had been abducted & forced into a marriage, & that she is as ecstatic as Siegfried - she is as eager to rush into the woods with him as he is with her.

"I'd hate anyone coming to a work for the first time to see it done like that" There's always going to be someone in the audience who'll be seeing the work for the first time. Your comment suggests that all productions should be extremely 'safe' & by the book, which might result in audiences consisting only of those who are first-timers.

[amateur51]

But such an interpretation would ignore the fact that Sieglinde had been abducted & forced into a marriage, & that she is as ecstatic as Siegfried - she is as eager to rush into the woods with him as he is with her.

"I'd hate anyone coming to a work for the first time to see it done like that" There's always going to be someone in the audience who'll be seeing the work for the first time. Your comment suggests that all productions should be extremely 'safe' & by the book, which might result in audiences consisting only of those who are first-timers.

I took a friend to the Richard Jones/Bernard Haitink Ring cycle at ROH one year for her birthday,

Despite the strange very 'unsafe' production and the even odder perspective (slips were all I could afford) she absolutely loved it. We've been to many other productions together since and she's planning to take me to the forthcoming Opera Noth Ring over the next few years for my birthday(s).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ah yes, the Opera North Ring. The anticipation is unbearable. It's something I'd only dreamed of, until its announcement.

[bluestateprommer]

Somewhat connecting 2 of the operas alluded to earlier in this thread, Roberto Alagna recently subbed as a last-minute recruit as Cavaradossi in the Met's Tosca last night, "wearing his boots from Carmen":

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/alagna-to-pinch-hit-in-tosca-tonight/