Leonard Bernstein’s Wonderful Town

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  • Stanfordian
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 9342

    Leonard Bernstein’s Wonderful Town

    Last Wednesday I attended the revival of Leonard Bernstein’s musical Wonderful Town in Braham Murray’s stunning new production at the Lowry Salford starring Connie Fisher as Ruth. The production is a collaboration between the Lowry, the Royal Exchange Theatre and the Hallé Orchestra under Sir Mark Elder. With a splendid cast and excellent orchestra Wonderful Town was the finest night’s entertainment I have had at the theatre for many years. After five days Bernstein’s melodies are still ringing around in my head. I loved every minute of the show.

    The large pit at the Lowry manages to just squeeze in the Hallé’s players (around 70 by my guess) who will play under Sir Mark at the Lowry until 14th April 2012. From the 16th April at the Lowry another of musicians – but a much smaller number –will take over under conductor James Burton until 21st April then Wonderful Town embarks on a UK tour visiting 11 towns and cities: Milton Keynes; Sheffield; Glasgow; Nottingham; Birmingham; Southampton; Norwich; Newcastle; Woking; Plymouth and Cardiff. As yet no London dates have been specified I noticed.
  • BBMmk2
    Late Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 20908

    #2
    Ah, i think I have MTT conducting this score. Methinks soon after LB's death? Maybe wrong ofcourse.
    Don’t cry for me
    I go where music was born

    J S Bach 1685-1750

    Comment

    • Nick Armstrong
      Host
      • Nov 2010
      • 26601

      #3
      Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
      Ah, i think I have MTT conducting this score. Methinks soon after LB's death? Maybe wrong ofcourse.
      You may be thinking of 'On The Town', bbm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/On-Town-Fred.../dp/B000001GI4

      (I just made the same mistake)
      "...the isle is full of noises,
      Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
      Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
      Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

      Comment

      • BBMmk2
        Late Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 20908

        #4
        Ah yes, Caliban. Thank you for that!
        Don’t cry for me
        I go where music was born

        J S Bach 1685-1750

        Comment

        • Petrushka
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 12387

          #5


          I bought this when it first came out and rather enjoyed it!
          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

          Comment

          • jean
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 7100

            #6
            I'd read a few good reviews, but it wasn't until I saw the OP here that I decided to go. I hope it lives up to expectations!

            (Living in Liverpool as I do, going to hear the Hallé always seems like the height of disloyalty, and I never normally do it.)

            Comment

            • makropulos
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1685

              #7
              Glad to hear this is good. I'm going to see it next Friday and was not sure what to expect. The last time I saw this (terrific) show was in London with Maureen Lipman in the Rosalind Russell part - and she was marvellous. I can't really imagine Connie Fisher as a comic actress, but I'm happy to hear the cast is good.

              The orchestra - frankly - is too big for a Broadway show, but so long as they do a more stylish job than Rattle's stylistically maladroit attempts (CD from Birmingham, DVD from Berlin) I'm quite happy with that. (And before I'm accused of senseless Rattle-bashing, compare his recordings with a version of the show that really has some energy and Broadway pizazz, conducted by Lehman Engel:
              http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wonderful-To...3995076&sr=1-1)

              Comment

              • Sapere Aude

                #8
                Originally posted by makropulos View Post
                The orchestra - frankly - is too big for a Broadway show.
                The point is though that when done as a Broadway show, a lot of Bernstein's orchestration is cut out, precisely because they can't use an orchestra as the score would ideally need. For example, there are passages which Bernstein orchestrated for multiple string soloists plus tutti further in divisi. Or passages where the 1st violins are divided in 4 separate parts (with the other string sections again in multiple div. lines). He also wrote multiple passages for 4 trumpets, 5 saxophones, kit and at least 2 other percussion players, etc. But when the music is done "a la Broadway", all that is cut. The entire first violins section is often replaced by a single player which means the extra solo lines are cut, the rich 4 part harmonies reduced to a single line, etc. The 5 saxes usually become 2, the 4 trumpets become 2, same with the trombones, etc. Oboe, cor anglais, bassoon, piccolo, extra percussion, etc, etc, left out altogether. It may be an authentic Broadway sound but is not what Bernstein ideally orchestrated for.
                Last edited by Guest; 10-04-12, 15:04.

                Comment

                • makropulos
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1685

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sapere Aude View Post
                  The point is though that when done as a Broadway show, a lot of Bernstein's orchestration is cut out, precisely because they can't use an orchestra as the score would ideally need. For example, there are passages which Bernstein orchestrated for multiple string soloists plus tutti further in divisi. Or passages where the 1st violins are divided in 4 separate parts (with the other string sections again in multiple div. lines). He also wrote multiple passages for 4 trumpets, 5 saxophones, kit and at least 2 other percussion players, etc. But when the music is done "a la Broadway", all that is cut. The entire first violins section is often replaced by a single player which means the extra solo lines are cut, the rich 4 part harmonies reduced to a single line, etc. The 5 saxes usually become 2, the 4 trumpets become 2, same with the trombones, etc. Oboe, cor anglais, bassoon, piccolo, extra percussion, etc, etc, left out altogether. It may be an authentic Broadway sound but is not what Bernstein ideally orchestrated for.
                  There's no such thing as "Bernstein's orchestration" of Wonderful Town - it's by Don Walker (see the published vocal score). And the notion that doing things "a la Broadway" means compromising the original intentions of composer and orchestrator is absurd, unless you mean a massively reduced orchestra, which isn't at all what I was talking about. Nothing gets "left out" by doing it as it was first done. I don't have the first night programme to hand, but as I recall the orchestra comprised about 28 players. The orchestra Walker used comprised: 5 reeds - all playing saxes as well as combinations of picc, flute, clarinets, oboe, cor anglais, bassoon, 4 trumpets, 3 trombones, timp, perc (2 players), piano/celesta and strings. The issue is the size of the string section. With the original pit band (I'm not talking about later reductions - but the orchestrations conceived for the original production) there was no compromise in terms of divisi violins, just a smaller section that that fielded by the Hallé.

                  Comment

                  • Sapere Aude

                    #10
                    Don Walker or Bernstein, it doesn't matter at all. The point is that most "a la Broadway" performances leave many things out from the original score. The problem in most musical theaters is that the acoustic is not "made for strings" - unless strings and winds are usually amplified (strings heavily) you'll never hear anything from them when the brass and kit are playing. Having more strings in gives a chance for the natural - not microphone sound - to be heard.

                    Comment

                    • makropulos
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1685

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sapere Aude View Post
                      Don Walker or Bernstein, it doesn't matter at all. The point is that most "a la Broadway" performances leave many things out from the original score. The problem in most musical theaters is that the acoustic is not "made for strings" - unless strings and winds are usually amplified (strings heavily) you'll never hear anything from them when the brass and kit are playing. Having more strings in gives a chance for the natural - not microphone sound - to be heard.
                      But that's the thing: these orchestrations were precisely devised for use in a theatre, in the mid-1950s certainly without any amplification. If all the players called for by the original Walker orchestration are used (as they were in the first production, and are in any responsible revival) it sounds "right" in a way that a very large orchestra may not. I would agree with you if parts were left out for economic reasons, but that's a different issue.

                      Comment

                      • Dave2002
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 18060

                        #12
                        So should I book tickets - train tickets to Manchester plus the show, or wait until the reduced band gets to somewhere nearer, such as Woking? Could do with an outing- work rather tedious now.
                        Last edited by Dave2002; 17-04-12, 20:23.

                        Comment

                        • Sapere Aude

                          #13
                          Originally posted by makropulos View Post
                          But that's the thing: these orchestrations were precisely devised for use in a theatre, in the mid-1950s certainly without any amplification. If all the players called for by the original Walker orchestration are used (as they were in the first production, and are in any responsible revival) it sounds "right" in a way that a very large orchestra may not. I would agree with you if parts were left out for economic reasons, but that's a different issue.
                          As far as I am aware the real reason for which a reduced string section was used is because no Broadway theater could accommodate a large orchestra, especially if big instruments were needed, like the piano, some of the percussion, etc. None of these theaters had anything like a decent size orchestra pit, never mind a "Metropolitan Opera size pit"! And the music had to be written for a band that could fit not only in one specific theater, anyway, but a band that could play ideally in any of them. The "compromise" was to orchestrate for a band which could achieve a satisfactory variety of sound and dynamics with a relatively small number of players. The same reason for which most wind instruments had to double on 4-5 different instruments during the show. Thus too the doubling parts had to be kept relatively easy so players who played the flute or bassoon for example as a doubling instrument could cope with it not being their main instrument! Many orchestration decisions were a sort of compromise...

                          On the other hand, as far as I know, music bands were already routinely using amplification during the 50s. But if the strings were not amplified, I'm sure the public didn't hear more than some sort of vague impression of a string sound, maybe for a few seconds during short sections of a couple of numbers. For everything else the string players could have just gone off-stage for coffee! In loud dynamics, according to common orchestration principles, a brass instrument is usually considered to equal in volume 2 woodwind instruments, while a woodwind instrument is considered to equal in volume a whole string section. This is of course very approximate, and many other factors come in play, for example where in their register the instruments play, what techniques they use, etc. But this is some sort of "average guiding principle". There are passages in Wonderful Town where the first violins take over in mid register from saxophones the main theme, while the entire wind/brass/percussion/kit sections continue to play a fairly active accompaniment, all given the same f dynamic. There is no way at all any sound from 4 violins would cut through at all without amplification, from an average musical theater pit. Absolutely no way! In fact even a "full" string section would struggle, especially in mid register, and would be close to inaudible in a low register against 5 saxophones, 3 trombones, trumpets, etc blasting at full steam. There are other passages in Wonderful Town where the strings give rhythmic/harmonic support in single note pizzicato notes in the low register, to a whole brass section plus percussion (plus kit) playing a tune. Again, there is no way you would hear any of that string sound at all in the theater - not even in the first few rows of the stalls, never mind the upper circles! It's not that those few strings would not sound quite loud enough without amplification, it's that they would be completely obliterated for most of the show! Completely inaudible! You wouldn't even hear a trace of them! Or a colour! Nothing! They might as well just not be there! There would be no point for most of those 60 or so pages of violin music for example!

                          Bear in mind that what you hear on any of the "Broadway recordings" is not the natural sound and balance of the instruments as it were "without any microphones and mixers"!
                          Last edited by Guest; 11-04-12, 03:13.

                          Comment

                          • makropulos
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 1685

                            #14
                            The "real reason" was also economic as well as spatial: there's anguished correspondence from composers (including Bernstein) to producers asking/begging for orchestras to be expanded by one or two players, from 26 to 28 or whatever. But yes, the pit size is also a determining factor. Obviously show orchestrations are "a kind of compromise" but they're vastly preferable to most attempts at improving them. As an aside, when Bernstein himself recorded West Side Story - for all the manifest casting problems of that recording - the ensemble he used was not a full symphony orchestra but a relatively small band. It's the one aspect of that record that seems absolutely right - and it was Bernstein's choice to use the original Ramin/Kostal/Bernstein orchestrations with a band of appropriate size.

                            As for pit bands being "routinely" amplified in the 1950s, where's the evidence for this? According to Irwin Kostal talking about helping Don Walker with the orchestration of a show in 1950 "There was no amplification in those days, no microphones and no indivdually designed theatrical sound systems" (see: Steven Suskin: The Sound of Broadway, p. 60). By the mid-1960s amplification was starting to come in - but that's a decade or so after "Wonderful Town".

                            You say that "if the strings were not amplified, I'm sure the public didn't hear more than some sort of vague impression of a string sound, maybe for a few seconds during short sections of a couple of numbers." Have you heard any live performances (recorded in the theatre - not cast recordings) of Broadway shows from the 1950s? Your claim is not supported by what can be heard clearly even in quite primitive (usually private) recordings. Moreover, your comment suggests that Broadway orchestrators didn't actually think about this sort of thing - which of course they did.

                            Comment

                            • Sapere Aude

                              #15
                              Don't have much time I'm afraid for a detailed reply. Don Walker bothers to write "tutti" above the 2 lower lines for example when the first violins are devided in 4 (if he didn't imagine possible additional players one the lower 2 voices there would be no need to indicate that the 2 lower lines be devided among the tutti players, since there would be no "tutti" available, as each line could only be played by one of the 4 available players - there would be no need to ask for 2 solo violins for the top 2 voices since there wouldn't be more than 2 solo violins available to play them anyway, if the other 2 players play the 2 lower voices ).

                              I promise you, at the Lowry, like in all but a few "acoustically lucky" theaters, as soon as the saxes, trumpets, perc. etc "unleash" themselves, you wouldn't even be able to hear a trace of sound made by just a few strings, unless they are amplified!! Definitely not beyond the first 3-4 rows (and that only if you sit close to them, on their side).

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