Wed 7 March; Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra/Karabits from Poole

[Panjandrum]

Mario

Steady on, old chap, I sense your blood pressure beginning to rise! Amazing to think how far we as a culture have gone from when EM Forster wrote, in Howard's End: "It will be generally admitted that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is the most sublime noise that has ever penetrated into the ear of man. All sorts and conditions are satisfied by it."

Actually the kind of remark that Beethoven 5 is old hat perfectly illustrates the old cliche of familiarity breeding contempt. Can anyone imagine what musical history would be without the fifth or the ninth? Quite impossble. Can anyone seriously doubt that it is the single most influential piece of music in the last 200 years? Only a corpse could fail to have the hairs on the back of their neck stand on end at that propulsive heavens-shaking coda to the first movement, or the triumphant release of ratcheted up tension after the transition to the finale.

[Auferstehen2]

Panjandrum,

I think I'm feeling rather quesy, but if you had long blonde hair, big jubblies and a mind like a Cairo sewer in the summer, I could fall in love with you.

Mario

[Bryn]

I'll give it a chance, Mario, but I have a feeling that I may abandon tonight's version for the 'live' recording of the same work by La Chambre Philharmonique under the direction of Emmanuel Krivine.

[Hmm. Actually I think I will stick with tonight's performance. Everybody seems to have woken up and started paying attention to the music in front of them.]

[Panjandrum]

Panjandrum,

I think I'm feeling rather quesy, but if you had long blonde hair, big jubblies and a mind like a Cairo sewer in the summer, I could fall in love with you.

Mario

[Hornspieler]

Mario

Well, I decided to give Beethoven's 5th a chance.

Okay until the Scherzo/Finale. They have to do something about their bass section. Approximate is the kindest way to describe it. Otherwise a fairly workmanlike performance, but nothing to write home about.

In the first part of the concert, I thought the Octet was pretty good. The Strauss serenade would probably never get an airing, had it been written by a lesser known young composer. Not impressed by the performance - listless, I would say.
Piano concerto did nothing for me and I make no other comment.

For me, the highlight of the evening was that fantastic Beethoven Violin and Piano sonata during the interval.

HS

[salymap]

Morning HS and all, I was surprised to find I knew the Stravinsky Octet and I enjoyed it. The rest of the first half not to my taste but the Beethoven 5th was a treat for me. As well known as HS's aversion to nos 5 and 9 was my aversion [on the old boards] to odd numbered Beethoven symphonies.I hadn't heard no 5 for years, have no recordings of it, it came fresh and new [believe it]. Now that leaves no 7 which always leaves me tired and bad tempered, oh and there's no 3, the Eroica. Sorry Mario

[Auferstehen2]

...my aversion [on the old boards] to odd numbered Beethoven symphonies.

...no 7 which always leaves me tired and bad tempered,

...oh and there's no 3, the Eroica.

Sorry Mario

Mortified salymap, utterly, completely, desolately and irretrievably mortified. I honestly don't know if I'll ever recover from this.



Mario

[salymap]

Sorry about that but I did enjoy no 5. We all moan about overplaying but the answer is so obvious isn't it? Best wishes,

salymap

[cloughie]

Morning HS and all, I was surprised to find I knew the Stravinsky Octet and I enjoyed it. The rest of the first half not to my taste but the Beethoven 5th was a treat for me. As well known as HS's aversion to nos 5 and 9 was my aversion [on the old boards] to odd numbered Beethoven symphonies.I hadn't heard no 5 for years, have no recordings of it, it came fresh and new [believe it]. Now that leaves no 7 which always leaves me tired and bad tempered, oh and there's no 3, the Eroica. Sorry Mario

What I heard of No5 some of movt3 and finale sounded vibrant. My personal likes on the 9 are I like all of them with the exception of the choral movement at the end - I pretend he never finished it and cut it off after Movt 3 - and that movement can be ruined if taken too quickly! Surprised you dislike No7 Beecham did a cracker of a version of it - nice listen after his Schubert 5.

[salymap]

What I heard of No5 some of movt3 and finale sounded vibrant. My personal likes on the 9 are I like all of them with the exception of the choral movement at the end - I pretend he never finished it and cut it off after Movt 3 - and that movement can be ruined if taken too quickly! Surprised you dislike No7 Beecham did a cracker of a version of it - nice listen after his Schubert 5.

I've never heard Beecham do Beethoven symphonies, as far as I can remember. I don't dislike the work but the hard driven, relentless sort of performance high-powered conductors seem to like.

[cloughie]

I've never heard Beecham do Beethoven symphonies, as far as I can remember. I don't dislike the work but the hard driven, relentless sort of performance high-powered conductors seem to like.

I find speeds of modern performaces of Beethoven Symphonies generally are too quick! Klemperer's first Philharmonia Eroica is my ideal!

[3rd Viennese School]

I disagree with some of the programming comments here.

This was a highly varied programme and gives people a chance to hear works like Stravinsky Octet and Piano Concerto.

As for the Beethoven 5- I dont find this one overplayed. No.3 and no.6 do seem to be overplayed however.

So a good concert. But what happend in Beethoven 5 scherzo? Why did they go round again? Its surly just scherzo (no repeats- the only symphony where the scherzo isnt repeated!)-
trio ( repeat both sides)- scherzo played differenly and quietly.
I even checked my score and there's no Da Capo marked at the end of the trio.

Is it actually there?

3VS

[Auferstehen2]

3VS, I raised this very point on the old BBC boards, and someone (can't remember who) answered it extensively for me. I cannot remember the full answer, but I have a feeling it was left pretty open, and Beethoven hadn't quite made up his mind (the (in)famous opening movement repeat in the Eroica is another case in point). I like it, but only because it's rarely played, as you say. I also believe that the repeat is not desirable, as it unbalances the work.

So, could someone who's more clued up tells us please? Roehre, Bryn, Dave2002, anyone?

Mario

[Hornspieler]

... So a good concert. But what happend in Beethoven 5 scherzo? Why did they go round again? Its surly just scherzo (no repeats- the only symphony where the scherzo isnt repeated!)-
trio ( repeat both sides)- scherzo played differenly and quietly.
I even checked my score and there's no Da Capo marked at the end of the trio.

Is it actually there?

3VS

Maybe the conductor thought he would give the double basses a second chance to get it right.

Unfortunately they failed. If anything, it was worse than the first attempt.

HS

[Bryn]

I disagree with some of the programming comments here.

This was a highly varied programme and gives people a chance to hear works like Stravinsky Octet and Piano Concerto.

As for the Beethoven 5- I dont find this one overplayed. No.3 and no.6 do seem to be overplayed however.

So a good concert. But what happend in Beethoven 5 scherzo? Why did they go round again? Its surly just scherzo (no repeats- the only symphony where the scherzo isnt repeated!)-
trio ( repeat both sides)- scherzo played differenly and quietly.
I even checked my score and there's no Da Capo marked at the end of the trio.

Is it actually there?

3VS

According to Boulez, a student of his produced a very convincing thesis regarding the repeat in the third movement. Boulez included that repeat in his recording of the Fifth with the New Philharmonia. I am sorry to say that the repeat is to me the only reason for listening to that particular recording. I don't think it ever made it to CD, but I still have the LP.

Oh, and I had nothing against the programme. It was the apparent lack of involvement of the orchestra members in the Stravinsky and Strauss items which I found a problem. I love the Octet and Concerto for Piano and Winds, but the orchestra's contributions to them I found wanting. To my ears they lacked the rhythmic zest the works call for.