Lunchtime howlers

[JFLL]

... I've long abandoned hope of hearing German being spoken properly on Radio 3 (Martin Handley being an honourable exception). Liebeslied, Liebesleid - hey, there're virtually the same thing!

Too true. I once heard Liebeslied ('love song') pronounced Leibesleid ('bodily suffering'). It's a pain in the a... !

[Anna]

Too true. I once heard Liebeslied ('love song') pronounced Leibesleid ('bodily suffering'). It's a pain in the a... !

Maybe, but us without any German, we take as said. Does it spoil the enjoyment? Of the music?

[Panjandrum]

Maybe, but us without any German, we take as said. Does it spoil the enjoyment? Of the music?

The problem is that for those of us who do have German, you can't just ignore it. Imagine, if you will, if the presenters kept referring to "Shakker-spear", or "Dee-kens"; and you will get some idea of the irritation this causes. Moreover, there is a BBC pronunication unit, so there is no excuse.

[kernelbogey]

On RAI Tre, the Italian Radio Three, I once heard an announcer refer to Brahams - two syllables, aspirating the h.

[JFLL]

Maybe, but us without any German, we take as said. Does it spoil the enjoyment? Of the music?

Not of the music, maybe, Anna (though it might put a German-speaker into a less receptive frame of mind for the music), but isn't a radio programme a public performance, with the performers including not only the musicians but also the announcers, who as professionals should avoid mispronunciation just as the musicians, we hope, avoid wrong notes?

Mispronunciations do often add to the gaiety of life, though. In Italy once we heard someone referred to on television as 'Boboschi'. Then it dawned that it was Bob Hoskins. We've called him that in our household ever since. Suits him, somehow.

[Serial_Apologist]

the gaiety of life

Plenty of that on this forum, JFLL!!!

[Norfolk Born]

Sorry I didn't explain enough. I meant -ch.

Ach so! Let's hope that Anjulla Murkel doesn't find out what some of our broadcasters are doing to her language. And that that poor Iva Brawn must be turning in her grave.

[gurnemanz]

Though I think this is NOT the case: the presenter might have thought that the piece was Liebestraum (singular).

I know it's not worth making a big thing of but, for the record, she was using the plural form, saying "Liebestraume" (no umlaut pronounced) and then translating it for us as "dreams of love".

[kernelbogey]

Turning the tables a bit here, most Germans speaking English pronounce the flat English a as e, for example pronouncing bad as 'bed'. I once queried this with a German friend who said that was how they'd been taught. My hunch is that this has come down from English teachers of English in earlier times who pronounced it that way - as in 1940s films. Have others noticed this?

[Roehre]

Turning the tables a bit here, most Germans speaking English pronounce the flat English a as e, for example pronouncing bad as 'bed'. I once queried this with a German friend who said that was how they'd been taught. My hunch is that this has come down from English teachers of English in earlier times who pronounced it that way - as in 1940s films. Have others noticed this?

It still is taught that way in Germany as well as in the Netherlands.

[kernelbogey]

I find thet strangely enechronistic....

[Roehre]

I find thet strangely enechronistic....

Zet mekes too of us

[gurnemanz]

Turning the tables a bit here, most Germans speaking English pronounce the flat English a as e, for example pronouncing bad as 'bed'. I once queried this with a German friend who said that was how they'd been taught. My hunch is that this has come down from English teachers of English in earlier times who pronounced it that way - as in 1940s films. Have others noticed this?

Years ago an elderly German woman confirmed to me the point you have just made. She told me she had learned to pronounce "man" as "men". I then asked her how what happened if there were two of them. She said "two min".

[kernelbogey]

Years ago an elderly German woman confirmed to me the point you have just made. She told me she had learned to pronounce "man" as "men". I then asked her how what happened if there were two of them. She said "two min".

I have an image of Upper-Class gels going out to Germany to teach English in the twenties and early thirties and teaching this pronunciation by default. And why do I suddenly think of the Mitford sisters...?

Also strange as this style of pronunciation has almost died out here. David Cameron doesn't do it, though the Queen and Brian Sewell do. I wonder if any German linguists are aware of its class-based provenance.

[Pabmusic]

Imagine, if you will, if the presenters kept referring to "Shakker-spear"...

Problem is, 'Shakspear' may well be the better pronunciation. Most of the contemporary spellings are variants on that (even several 'Shagspears') rather than on what we say now. I'll grant that it doesn't have a middle syllable, but...