Lunchtime howlers

[gurnemanz]

A pleasant lunchtime piano recital from Perth today included a couple of examples of slackness from the presentation team. For the Liszt transcription of Schubert's Ständchen, we were told that the text was Shakespeare's "Hark! Hark! the Lark". Sorry to hark on about this (geddit?) but it seems to me this is not something they should be getting wrong, especially since it was pointed out that Liszt insisted on the song text being included in the programme notes. It was, of course, "Leise flehen meine Lieder", which is also called Ständchen, hence someone's confusion. I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!". If so, I've never heard it and it doesn't seem to be up his street.

The announcer then failed to acknowledge the umlaut on the plural "Liebesträume" (to rhyme with "Troy"). It is strange that they should mis-pronounce the title of such well-known and oft-heard pieces of music.

[Serial_Apologist]

A pleasant lunchtime piano recital from Perth today included a couple of examples of slackness from the presentation team. For the Liszt transcription of Schubert's Ständchen, we were told that the text was Shakespeare's "Hark! Hark! the Lark". Sorry to hark on about this (geddit?) but it seems to me this is not something they should be getting wrong, especially since it was pointed out that Liszt insisted on the song text being included in the programme notes. It was, of course, "Leise flehen meine Lieder", which is also called Ständchen, hence someone's confusion. I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!". If so, I've never heard it and it doesn't seem to be up his street.

The announcer then failed to acknowledge the umlaut on the plural "Liebesträume" (to rhyme with "Troy"). It is strange that they should mis-pronounce the title of such well-known and oft-heard pieces of music.

I'm sure they would have got this right had they been announcing the concert on Radio 3

[subcontrabass]

A pleasant lunchtime piano recital from Perth today included a couple of examples of slackness from the presentation team. For the Liszt transcription of Schubert's Ständchen, we were told that the text was Shakespeare's "Hark! Hark! the Lark". Sorry to hark on about this (geddit?) but it seems to me this is not something they should be getting wrong, especially since it was pointed out that Liszt insisted on the song text being included in the programme notes. It was, of course, "Leise flehen meine Lieder", which is also called Ständchen, hence someone's confusion. I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!". If so, I've never heard it and it doesn't seem to be up his street.

The text in the score of the Liszt is "Hark, hark, the lark" - see http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/us...60-S558v09.pdf

[gurnemanz]

The text in the score of the Liszt is "Hark, hark, the lark" - see http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/us...60-S558v09.pdf

Thanks for that. I should have been less ignorant. I've just checked. There is a recording of Horch! Horch! by Jorge Bolet on the very good DG Liszt anniversary box I acquired last year... and I had listened to it. I shall dig it out and play it again.

[Roehre]

The announcer then failed to acknowledge the umlaut on the plural "Liebesträume" (to rhyme with "Troy"). It is strange that they should mis-pronounce the title of such well-known and oft-heard pieces of music.

Though I think this is NOT the case: the presenter might have thought that the piece was Liebestraum (singular).

Many think Liebestraum no.3 (singular) is the correct title, the piece being part of a set of 3 Liebesträume (plural). However, it is Liszt who called this song (and its piano transcription in which it is much more known) Liebesträume (plural).

But to be honest, I don't really think the present bunch of presenters (generally speaking) would know this detail.....

[Ravensbourne]

Ständchen

I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!". If so, I've never heard it and it doesn't seem to be up his street.

I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!" either, but Liszt transcribed both songs titled Ständchen, namely "Leise flehen meine Lieder" (D.957) and "Horch! Horch! die Lerch!" (D889). As far as I recall, it was "Leise flehen meine Lieder" that we heard today.

[Ravensbourne]

Franz Liszt: Ständchen, Leise flehen meine Lieder (D.957), S.560/7

For the Liszt transcription of Schubert's Ständchen, we were told that the text was Shakespeare's "Hark! Hark! the Lark". Sorry to hark on about this (geddit?) but it seems to me this is not something they should be getting wrong, especially since it was pointed out that Liszt insisted on the song text being included in the programme notes. It was, of course, "Leise flehen meine Lieder", which is also called Ständchen, hence someone's confusion. I don't know if Schubert transcribed "Hark! Hark!". If so, I've never heard it and it doesn't seem to be up his street.

The song text (not Shakespeare's) is certainly included in the published score at:

http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/d/d8/IMSLP14247-S560v07.pdf

[kernelbogey]

I find the mispronunciation of German irritating because I speak it. The umlaut is pretty obvious, and there's enough music titled in German for presenters to know that this signals a change of vowel sound. It seems to me a fairly basic skill working on a classical music station. Conversely there is one presenter whose over-meticulous pronunciation of everything non-English comes over as prissy. There's just no pleasing some people....

[Roehre]

I find the mispronunciation of German irritating because I speak it. The umlaut is pretty obvious, and there's enough music titled in German for presenters to know that this signals a change of vowel sound. It seems to me a fairly basic skill working on a classical music station. :

Being myself fluent in German (including the Swiss variant Schwyzertüütsch), French, Welsh, Dutch and English, and having a good working knowledge of Italian and Spanish, many a pronunciation of names in any of these languages sounds risibly ridiculous to me.
But I am afraid some British choirs shouldn't record any other repertoire than English either - I recall a musically very good Honegger Christmas Cantata on a BBC MM CD, of which the performance was marred to such an extent by the mis-pronunciation of the French texts, that -at listening to the CD with French friends of mine- we started laughing and had to switch off the CD-player approximately half way the piece .
And unfortunately some song recordings by Dame Janet -including the Alto Rhapsody- are in that same category .

[Ravensbourne]

BBC Music Magazine, December 2003 - Honegger's Christmas Cantata

I recall a musically very good Honegger Christmas Cantata on a BBC MM CD, of which the performance was marred to such an extent by the mis-pronunciation of the French texts, that -at listening to the CD with French friends of mine- we started laughing and had to switch off the CD-player approximately half way the piece .

Ouch! If even the BBC Singers fail to please, what hope is there for the rest of us? Or was it not their contribution that caused such mirth?

[kernelbogey]

many a pronunciation of names in any of these languages sounds risibly ridiculous to me. [...]

The world dominance of English has been a mixed blessing for us, engendering a laziness, bordering on contempt, for accuracy in other languages.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i am reminded of the infamous Graun crossword clue:

Hark! Sexual perversion! (5, 2, 4, 4)

[Ravensbourne]

Ständchen

A pleasant lunchtime piano recital from Perth today included a couple of examples of slackness from the presentation team.

Surely the presentation team went on information agreed in advance with the performer. The piece on the programme was advertised as Lieder von Schubert S558. Ständchen von Shakespeare is S.558/9.

If she chose to play a different selection, including S.560/7, you cannot blame the presentation team.

[subcontrabass]

Surely the presentation team went on information agreed in advance with the performer. The piece on the programme was advertised as Lieder von Schubert S558. Ständchen von Shakespeare is S.558/9.

If she chose to play a different selection, including S.560/7, you cannot blame the presentation team.

But perhaps it is time the playlist on the Radio 3 website was updated to reflect what was actually played.

[Pianorak]

I think the matter is slightly more complicated as the single umlauts ä ö ü do present a real difficulty for native English speakers. However, as pointed out by gurnemanz the äu in this case does rhyme with oy as in Troy and should perhaps have been easier.
It always amused me to find that students would always come up with a perfect umlaut when not required, eg Gewohnheit, but somehow couldn't manage Gewöhnung.

BTW. Lovely playing by KB today - I thought a bit more disciplined than on some previous occasions.