BPO Rattle Enigma Vars live

[Beef Oven]

This is the sort of thing I have found this website so interesting for. This short series of exchanges made me re-read (or rather, speed-read) Imogen Holst's biography of her father, with the result that I've had a really enjoyable few hours. It's certainly true that various Holsts worked in Germany, but Imogen says on page 1 (talking of Holst's father, Adolph) to "Adolph's Swedish grandfather Mathius had lived in Riga". She later tells of Holst's disappointment at not being fit to enlist in 1914:

"...he found that his name was adding to the complications of life...he did get heartily sick of reading the same apologies for his Swedish ancestors whenever a note of his music was played in public".

But the killer is this (and I really can't recall ever having read this before, which surprises me), about the deed poll by which he got rid of the 'von':

"... and when he had gone through the lengthy proceedings and had paid what he considered an exorbitant sum of money, he discovered that his particular branch of the family never had any claim to the title. A second cousin in the eighteenth century had been honoured by the German Emperor* ..., and the unscrupulous Mathias had calmly borrowed the 'von' in the hopes that it might bring in a few more piano pupils".

*She certainly got this wrong. There was no German Emperor then. I guess she meant the King of Prussia.

This is just the sort of peripheral anecdote I love!

I feel uncomfortable contradicting Holst's own daughter, but none of this is necessarily reliable, one way or the other. The fact is that in Estonia, Latvia and the environs, there were many ethnic Germans. For example, that rather nice chap Alfred Rosenberg of Third Reich fame, was born and lived Estonia.

I agree with you, these threads are most fascinating. However, we must not continue with it any further because I have feeling that I am 3 or 4 posts away from being proved wrong.

[Panjandrum]

No doubt... Very happy for you &c. &c. Reading what came before and after, it just seemed a compete non sequitur...

I think the segue was that one should be careful to assume that (like Holst) all Brits are necessarily of teutonic stock. As Germans are not renowned for shaving their armpits, those who do go in for this particular cosmetic practice probably have other, possibly more hellenic ancestry.

As to the main question, Holst's forbears were unquestionably scandinavian.

[Beef Oven]

I think the segue was that one should be careful to assume that (like Holst) all Brits are necessarily of teutonic stock. As Germans are not renowned for shaving their armpits, those who do go in for this particular cosmetic practice probably have other, possibly more hellenic ancestry.

As to the main question, Holst's forbears were unquestionably scandinavian.

You're thinking of Delius - his four bears were Scandinavian.

[Bryn]

You're thinking of Delius - his four bears were Scandinavian.

Holst was "German", and I am "African", i.e. I'm pretty sure that my ancestry goes back to the African Rift Valley. Come off it. Holst may, or may not, have had one or more grandparent who came from at least partly German ancestry. That would not make him German, or any other nationality than English. Damn it! He was born and Raised in Cheltenham!

[Beef Oven]

Holst was "German", and I am "African", i.e. I'm pretty sure that my ancestry goes back to the African Rift Valley. Come off it. Holst may, or may not, have had one or more grandparent who came from at least partly German ancestry. That would not make him German, or any other nationality than English. Damn it! He was born and Raised in Cheltenham!

I wish I hadn't started this! I wasn't even completely serious. I have a headache, I'm going to lie down in a dark room for a while.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

one should be careful to assume that (like Holst) all Brits are necessarily of teutonic stock.

"Careful"? One should avoid doing so at all. Who made such a ridiculous "assumption"?

[Beef Oven]

"Careful"? One should avoid doing so at all. Who made such a ridiculous "assumption"?

It wasn't me, it was Panjandrum (I'm not a grass).
.

[Panjandrum]

It wasn't me, it was Panjandrum (I'm not a grass).
.

Not I. My post, which was ironic, (as I'd hoped was obvious) was pointing out that others were guilty of making that assumption. Try msg #19 to see where that particular canard was given wing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... mind you, aren't most English people?

So "most English" translates as "all Brits" in Panjanese?

And what have ducks got to do with anything?

[JFLL]

Holst was "German", and I am "African", i.e. I'm pretty sure that my ancestry goes back to the African Rift Valley. Come off it. Holst may, or may not, have had one or more grandparent who came from at least partly German ancestry. That would not make him German, or any other nationality than English. Damn it! He was born and Raised in Cheltenham!

Reminds me of the story about a society lady asking Gerald Finzi 'And how do you like it here in England, Signor Finzi?'

(I may have added the 'Signor' for effect - maybe it was just 'Mr Finzi'.)

[gradus]

The BPO are offering a 48 hour free pass to their online concert hall plus entry into a prize draw for three 12 month tickets, in return for completing a brief questionnaire. I think you have to subscribe to their email newsletter but you can easily sign up.

[rubbernecker]

in return for completing a brief questionnaire.

As long as they don't ask whether one regards Holst as British or German

[gradus]

English, surely.

[Beef Oven]

The BPO are offering a 48 hour free pass to their online concert hall plus entry into a prize draw for three 12 month tickets, in return for completing a brief questionnaire. I think you have to subscribe to their email newsletter but you can easily sign up.

This post is too sensible, you need to re-site it; or add a claim that Carl Nielsen was Ghanaian and it can stay.